MB update

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@FitzE

@Scribbler

Well, yes. It’s common practice that no person or entity potentially facing a civil suit ever apologizes in a way that accepts responsibility and liability for the event because that could really make them lose the suit.

So true. Which makes any suggestion that he do so smack of either a complete failure to grasp the legal issues being discussed here, or an attempt to manipulate a party into doing something against their own interests.

Either way, badly done, and absolutely no value added to the discussion.

I am not attempting to “manipulate a party into doing something against their own interests”. I don’t think I have that power.

The jury in the criminal trial reached a NGRI verdict which indicates that the jury thought that the prosecution had proven beyond a reasonable doubt that be shot her. If he intends to relitigate that issue in the civil trial, the plaintiff only has to establish the fact that he shot her by a preponderance of the evidence, a lower bar than the criminal jury’s finding that the prosecution met the bar of “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

I haven’t said that he is obligated to express remorse, only that he hasn’t expressed remorse, AFAIK.

But IANAL. Perhaps he does intend to relitigate the issue of whether he shot her, despite the lower standard of proof.

Didn’t Ekat say that the insanity finding shielded him from civil liability? If that’s the case, why jump ship and try to establish self defense?

[Knights_Mom]

[quote=“Virginia_Horse_Mom, post:821, topic:774547, full:true”]

@Knights_Mom

@Sdel

@ekat

In the criminal trial, LK’s actions weren’t on trial. But in the civil trial, her actions, duties and any possible negligence, prior bad acts, etc will be front and center.
[/quote]

So…depending on what comes out…could judge Taylor/the prosecution/the police face some kind of liability?

If the case is televised and there is public outcry the police especially are in a very vulnerable and actionable position IMHO.

Prosecutor is most likely safe. The judge may or may not suffer privately with court system internal review.

MBs lawsuit against the police… is it totally dead? Or was it dismissed in such a way that he can revive it later?

I’m not 100% sure as I don’t remember the reason for dismissal but I remember it was Dismissed without prejudice to reopen and in the presence of some relevant fact or evidence it can probably be reopened with the same premise and definitely can be started citing a different relief.

Most courts stopped the clock in regard to the S of L due to covid closures and court slowdowns or closures.

[eggbutt]

@Fiesta01

I’ve never seen a dual-colored poodle before. Very striking. They’re both beautiful!

Thank you! Parti poodles are actually the original color way back when along with full tails. Breeders began breeding for solid color and docking the tails which almost eliminated the multi colors. Breeders began bringing back the pure old breed about 20 years ago. The American Kennel Club allows partis to be AKC registered but they can’t be shown in conformation classed. Due to the old, long standing politics, that isn’t likely to change anytime soon. Our boys are dual registered with United Kennel Club (UKC) which allows the poodles of color to show in conformation classes. Another tidbit of interest, it is now illegal to dock tails in Europe!

When we’re out and about passersby have insisted Elvis must be part dalmatian and actually vigorously argue with us about it!

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@FitzE

@Scribbler

Well, yes. It’s common practice that no person or entity potentially facing a civil suit ever apologizes in a way that accepts responsibility and liability for the event because that could really make them lose the suit.

So true. Which makes any suggestion that he do so smack of either a complete failure to grasp the legal issues being discussed here, or an attempt to manipulate a party into doing something against their own interests.

Either way, badly done, and absolutely no value added to the discussion.

I am not attempting to “manipulate a party into doing something against their own interests”. I don’t think I have that power.

The jury in the criminal trial reached a NGRI verdict which indicates that the jury thought that the prosecution had proven beyond a reasonable doubt that be shot her. If he intends to relitigate that issue in the civil trial, the plaintiff only has to establish the fact that he shot her by a preponderance of the evidence, a lower bar than the criminal jury’s finding that the prosecution met the bar of “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

I haven’t said that he is obligated to express remorse, only that he hasn’t expressed remorse, AFAIK.

But IANAL. Perhaps he does intend to relitigate the issue of whether he shot her, despite the lower standard of proof.

Didn’t Ekat say that the insanity finding shielded him from civil liability? If that’s the case, why jump ship and try to establish self defense?

You keep clinging to this false premise that it was proven he shot her.

[Sdel]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Why do you say there has been no discussion of RG?

Because you are not answering the question that was put forth. You are sidestepping. No one has asked you about how the jury came to the verdict they did in regards to RG. They are asking why you do not defend RG personally. He has received just as much discussion of a similar tone, here and elsewhere, as LK has, but not a single acknowledgment.

They want to understand your personal lack of conviction about the status of bullying of RG.

Interestingly enough, LK hasn’t defended him on YT either. However, RG’s family has been fairly vocal about how he has been ruined by LK, that he is in jeopardy, and seem to believe they committed actual crimes against MB.

[eggbutt]

@CurrentlyHorseless

a NGRI verdict which indicates that the jury thought that the prosecution had proven beyond a reasonable doubt that be shot her.

Nope. Not true. If your statement was true he would have been found GUILTY. Please stop with your wild positions on what the criminal verdict meant!

[LilRanger]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

Keep in mind that it’s not just RG, but also the grand jury and the prosecutor who thought there was evidence that MB attempted to murder RG. Not enough evidence to get a verdict of NGRI wrt RG, but enough evidence to charge MB and go to trial.

That’s a valid point.

I don’t know how grand juries specifically work in VA, but typically there is a very lopsided presentation of evidence/information. One of my law professors was keen on saying that “a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich.”

I’m not saying, I’m just saying…

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I am not attempting to “manipulate a party into doing something against their own interests”. I don’t think I have that power.

The jury in the criminal trial reached a NGRI verdict which indicates that the jury thought that the prosecution had proven beyond a reasonable doubt that be shot her. If he intends to relitigate that issue in the civil trial, the plaintiff only has to establish the fact that he shot her by a preponderance of the evidence, a lower bar than the criminal jury’s finding that the prosecution met the bar of “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

I haven’t said that he is obligated to express remorse, only that he hasn’t expressed remorse, AFAIK.

But IANAL. Perhaps he does intend to relitigate the issue of whether he shot her, despite the lower standard of proof.

Didn’t Ekat say that the insanity finding shielded him from civil liability? If that’s the case, why jump ship and try to establish self defense?

I don’t think I said that last part exactly. What I may have said, and certainly meant was MB has alleged, through his counterclaim, that he was acting under diminished capacity (much like the insanity finding) that was specifically caused by the actions of LK, making her comparatively negligent in the incident that caused her injuries.

Preponderance of the evidence goes both ways. MB only has to demonstrate that a preponderance of the evidence shows LK failed to mitigate her damages, breached her duty of care as a client of MB, and inflicted enough emotional distress to cause his diminished capacity that she is equally, if not more so, responsible for the incident. Even better for MB if his team has an ace up their sleeve regarding self-defense that was excluded from the criminal trial for whatever reason.

[Sdel]

@evtrmom

Plus their lawyer just happened to be on the call during the event?!

LK made a big deal about having made 4 phone calls that day. Wonder who those were to? I also keep going back to the claims about CPS and the hotline searches….

Sure CPS testified that they came out because SS reported to them, but that doesn’t mean that LK didn’t also make an anonymous hotline report as well. She made a big deal about how they knew to go past the house without talking to her.

[eggbutt]

Yeah, and for sure a civil jury is going to really scratch their heads at why she didn’t leave if she was so afraid, why call in inspectors, SS, CPS, place recording devices, etc. No reasonable person will support her excuses. Finish The Bastard might be all the civil trial needs.

[LilRanger]

@McGurk

The attorneys in my family tree have schooled me thoroughly never to apologize at an accident scene, in direct opposition to the social contract that says you say “I’m sorry” when someone is hurt or inconvenienced; BECAUSE it will later be construed as an admission of guilt.

In NM at least, saying “I’m sorry” at an accident CANNOT be used as an admission of guilt.

[ekat]

@eggbutt

Yeah, and for sure a civil jury is going to really scratch their heads at why she didn’t leave if she was so afraid, why call in inspectors, SS, CPS, place recording devices, etc. No reasonable person will support her excuses. Finish The Bastard might be all the civil trial needs.

All of those actions don’t exactly scream mitigating her damages, do they? Especially when even her dad was working on getting her out of there.

I like to mention this because it might be relevant. In NJ, MB’s criminal trial required a unanimous verdict from 12 jurors. The civil trial gets 6 jurors, and only 5 need to agree. 5 random people will judge her and RG’s credibility. May the odds be ever in their favor, I guess.

[eggbutt]

I also am confused why RG hasn’t received the visceral support and defense that LK has by the few. I had no idea his family has been posting against his behavior on YT! Goodness gracious, he is her groom, chef, house keeper, chauffer, laundry man, bully on call, grocery shopper, recording technician, master builder, nurse, and all around nice guy yet gets no support!

Double standards must be in play.

[ekat]

@LilRanger

In NM at least, saying “I’m sorry” at an accident CANNOT be used as an admission of guilt.

That is very interesting!

[Sdel]

@CurrentlyHorseless

The jury in the criminal trial reached a NGRI verdict which indicates that the jury thought that the prosecution had proven beyond a reasonable doubt that be shot her.

No it doesn’t. Regardless of how juries are officially instructed to find a verdict, they are allowed to find any which way they want for any reason they want. In fact, considering the insanity defense so rarely wins in lieu of a guilty verdict, one must seriously consider if the reason for the insanity verdict was found for reasons completely separate from the jury instructions. If that is the case, they could have just as equally given a self defense verdict if they had been allowed to consider it.

[Knights_Mom]

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

I am not attempting to “manipulate a party into doing something against their own interests”. I don’t think I have that power.

The jury in the criminal trial reached a NGRI verdict which indicates that the jury thought that the prosecution had proven beyond a reasonable doubt that be shot her. If he intends to relitigate that issue in the civil trial, the plaintiff only has to establish the fact that he shot her by a preponderance of the evidence, a lower bar than the criminal jury’s finding that the prosecution met the bar of “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

I haven’t said that he is obligated to express remorse, only that he hasn’t expressed remorse, AFAIK.

But IANAL. Perhaps he does intend to relitigate the issue of whether he shot her, despite the lower standard of proof.

Didn’t Ekat say that the insanity finding shielded him from civil liability? If that’s the case, why jump ship and try to establish self defense?

I don’t think I said that last part exactly. What I may have said, and certainly meant was MB has alleged, through his counterclaim, that he was acting under diminished capacity (much like the insanity finding) that was specifically caused by the actions of LK, making her comparatively negligent in the incident that caused her injuries.

Preponderance of the evidence goes both ways. MB only has to demonstrate that a preponderance of the evidence shows LK failed to mitigate her damages, breached her duty of care as a client of MB, and inflicted enough emotional distress to cause his diminished capacity that she is equally, if not more so, responsible for the incident. Even better for MB if his team has an ace up their sleeve regarding self-defense that was excluded from the criminal trial for whatever reason.

I’m thinking 99% of jurors will squarely peg LK/RG as being responsible for the series of events that happened.

Realistically all MB wanted was for them to leave. Everything else started with the response to that desire.

[eggbutt]

Careful @Knights_Mom, you are perilously close to saying she deserved to be shot. (Sarcasm)

[ekat]

@Knights_Mom

I’m thinking 99% of jurors will squarely peg LK/RG as being responsible for the series of events that happened.

LK has to convince 5 jurors that a) she’s credible, and b) played no part in the events in order to win.

In all of the thousands of posts I’ve seen on SM, I’m not sure I’ve seen 5 people that felt that way after the limited evidence in the criminal trial. (Excluding LK herself, and her mom.)

[Knights_Mom]

@eggbutt

Careful @Knights_Mom, you are perilously close to saying she deserved to be shot. (Sarcasm)

Not I. My position is more that every action causes a reaction but here the actions are way lopsided. As in I want you to no longer be my client and move out and you respond with illegal surveillance, ninja hopping, trying to finish me, reporting me, setting me up for future reporting by deeds done by you, defamation, assault, terroristic threats (which technically they were), threats, intimidation, etc.

[3PonyFarm]

I have a couple questions for our legal peeps-and again, thank you all who have shared your knowledge with us and allowed us to view the criminal and now civil case through the eyes of legal experts.

The idea of MB possibly being able to reopen the civil case with the police is interesting. My understanding is the judge found that his civil rights were not violated so it was dismissed. Could he refile with a different complaint of some sort?

Since it was the same judge that will be over the upcoming civil case, is there any conflict of interest as he is already aware of the case through the first one and already ruled on it?

I enjoyed everyone’s dog pictures and the squirrel drawing was amazing.