MB update

[Sdel]

@cutter99

I don’t know too many addicts that are physically fit and combat ready.

I’m sure Rosie was. And as a dog, I’m sure she was addicted to something. Bacon perhaps….

[eggbutt]

There have been several times I’ve wished I had recorded the hearing, but I was too busy taking copious notes to think about violating the clear notice on the screen.

[ekat]

@cutter99

I don’t know too many addicts that are physically fit and combat ready

I agree, but some of them can be pretty scrappy when they think they could score some drugs or the finances to score some drugs. And some drugs induce violent, erratic behavior. Just saying…

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I think there is a zero % chance that MBs lawyers will try to defend against the suit by trying to establish MB acted in self defense

But… we don’t know what other evidence might come into play during the civil trial. Texts that spoke to the alleged “plan” , all those recordings, various party’s prior arrest records, etc.

It sure seems possible for that MBs attorneys might try and defend him against the civil suit by claiming self defense. Why not? Couldn’t they argue he was a broken man, in the midst of a psychological crisis involving a delusional disorder involving a belief that these two people represented an imminent threat to MHGs children, thus he arrived at the scene with a weapon… at which point these two people, both of whom have a demonstrated violent criminal history (look at their arrest records), attacked him.

It seems possible to argue that. Especially if there are texts out there speaking about some sort of pre-existing plan to frame MB for something…

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@ekat

I agree, but some of them can be pretty scrappy when they think they could score some drugs or the finances to score some drugs. And some drugs induce violent, erratic behavior. Just saying…

This. All day long.

[eggbutt]

Actually, I believe MB’s quite competent attorneys have such significant evidence of wrongdoing that they will present a very solid case to the civil trial jury.

By the way, take a gander at the number of complete strangers posting on YT who, all on their own, came to the same conclusion about what happened that I and others have stated here. In other words, YOU are in the minority with your theory, but you be you, mkay?

[Knights_Mom]

@MHM

@cutter99

This post points out to me the absurdity that people believe RG is such a hero. Wasn’t RG’s height testified to as bring about 5’9” or less?

Yet he somehow got behind an “active shooter”, as certain posters would like us to believe, who was 6’3” and very fit. And RG was able to get this much taller man, 6” taller, in a reverse choke hold and choke him out while standing?

Yeah, my money is on the fact it did not happen this way, and MB was already on the ground, dog bitten and beat about the head, with a severely damaged arm and head injury, until the “hero” put him in a chokehold.

I also think people get carried away or distracted by the difference in size between the two men. Yes, MB was taller and probably fitter than RG.

But MB spent his life riding dressage horses. RG claimed to have experience as a Marine, including combat training, combined with a long history of shady criminal behavior, according to his extensive arrest record.

Which of those two people is likely to have a much bigger advantage in a physical altercation? Regardless of their relative size?

Especially if one expects to fight being more of a street cat and the other is not being more of a house cat and so not expecting a fistfight.

[Sdel]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Couldn’t they argue he was a broken man, in the midst of a psychological crisis involving a delusional disorder involving a belief that these two people represented an imminent threat to MHGs children, thus he arrived at the scene with a weapon… at which point these two people, both of whom have a demonstrated violent criminal history (look at their arrest records), attacked him.

The state psych in the criminal trial also testified to his, and others, very real fear and that LK’s behavior was fueling it.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Wasn’t the gun jammed though?

ETA: apparently it was empty, not jammed. But RG thought it was jammed.

And if RG really is any sort of Marine, he would have had hand to hand combat training. He would have received some in boot camp, and more later. So he got some training, regardless of when/why his association with the US Marine Corps terminated.

Per his own testimony, he was able to get behind MB, and administer a choke hold. Per RGs own testimony, MB lost consciousness and went down when RG applied the reverse chokehold. Presumably MB came to shortly thereafter… but at that point, he was down on the ground, with RG on top of him, per RGs own testimony.

Why then did RG proceed to beat in MBs head AFTER all that? A reverse chokehold is a known technique, that is widely considered one of the most effective ways of subduing an opponent in a hand to hand combat situation. They apparently don’t teach Marines to beat peoples heads into concrete AFTER getting someone in a reverse chokehold. That’s just a criminal street fighting type of move.

Regardless… PERHAPS RG was justified in terms of beating MBs head into the concrete after having administered the reverse chokehold and gotten MB on the ground… after all … LK had been shot.

But wasn’t the gun jammed at that point?

ETA: Again, apparently the clip was empty, not jammed… but… RG thought it was jammed.

And again, how does self defense work in NJ? If RG had MB in a reverse chokehol, and subdued on the ground… is it really still self defense if he then proceeds tp beat MBs head against the concrete and kill him?

I’m not so sure about that.

I thought that RG put MB into the chokehold on the raised patio, and both of them then fell off the patio onto whatever was below. Gravel? More concrete?

Do you begrudge RG a certain amount of rage at seeing his girlfriend shot and likely dying when he (heroically) moves to subdue a shooter?

I begrudge a person like RG who participates in a possible attempted murder of MB because it is completely feasible MB was jumped first, a scenario which must be presented in light of MBs initial self defense assertion at the criminal trial.

If the jury believes this scenario the civil plaintiff will not prevail but the counterclaim will.

I realize you and Eggbutt will go to your graves believing, or claiming you believe, that RG and LK were the aggressors, jumped MB, and that MB acted in self defense.

But the criminal trial is over, and that is not the finding of fact that the jury arrived at. Your continuing to misstate the NGRI verdict (wrt to LK) as NG will not change the jury’s finding.

Since we are now discussing the civil trial, is your point that you predict that MBs team will attempt to defend against the suit by trying to establish that MB was acting in self defense?

Do you think the attorneys for SGF will also use that defense?

If your scenario is that MB transported himself to their location with the gun, and before he started shooting, RG jumped him and started beating him, at which point he then shot LK (because she was hitting him on the head with her cell phone), I think it would be difficult to establish self defense when MB took himself to their location and brought the lethal weapon.

I think there is a zero % chance that MBs lawyers will try to defend against the suit by trying to establish MB acted in self defense.

You are consistent in your wrongness, I’ll give you that.

I’m talking about the CIVIL TRIAL where points like self defense WILL BE permitted and examined at great length and it is there that the tenants stories go to the dumpster.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

Suppose MB had reloaded and killed both RG and LK, then shot himself? That’s definitely possible, given that we’re talking about a legally insane person with a gun, acting out in desperation.

Suppose none of this went down the way two serial liars say it did?

Regardless of what RG and LK say happened when MB arrived at the farmhouse that day, my interpretation of the jury’s finding of fact is that MB, in a delusional state and a rage, transported himself and a loaded gun to their physical location”. We don’t need LKs testimony to know she was shot twice and nearly died.

If MB had succeeded in murdering both LK and RG, and we had exactly the same physical evidence (except we now have two dead bodies), the same testimony from all other witnesses such as the CPS worker and ED, and LK and RG said nothing (because they’re dead, right?), I’d have the exact same interpretation of what happened.

Despite LKs admitting to lying on SM, I believe their testimony as to what happened. I don’t believe it simply on the basis of their credibility, I believe it because it fits with all the other evidence.

So the fact that LK and perhaps RG are “known liars” is true, but not necessarily relevant to my, and the jury’s, interpretation of what happened.

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I believe their testimony as to what happened

Which version?

@CurrentlyHorseless

So the fact that LK and perhaps RG are “known liars” is true, but not necessarily relevant to my, and the jury’s, interpretation of what happened.

And a whole new jury gets to determine that again.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

Suppose MB had reloaded and killed both RG and LK, then shot himself? That’s definitely possible, given that we’re talking about a legally insane person with a gun, acting out in desperation.

Suppose none of this went down the way two serial liars say it did?

Regardless of what RG and LK say happened when MB arrived at the farmhouse that day, my interpretation of the jury’s finding of fact is that MB, in a delusional state and a rage, transported himself and a loaded gun to their physical location”. We don’t need LKs testimony to know she was shot twice and nearly died.

If MB had succeeded in murdering both LK and RG, and we had exactly the same physical evidence (except we now have two dead bodies), the same testimony from all other witnesses such as the CPS worker and ED, and LK and RG said nothing (because they’re dead, right?), I’d have the exact same interpretation of what happened.

Despite LKs admitting to lying on SM, I believe their testimony as to what happened. I don’t believe it simply on the basis of their credibility, I believe it because it fits with all the other evidence.

So the fact that LK and perhaps RG are “known liars” is true, but not necessarily relevant to my, and the jury’s, interpretation of what happened.

Yeah people believe certain politicians too despite evidence.

You can believe as you wish but you must note that the overwhelming majority of people here, and who watched the criminal trial, and the jury do not and will not believe as you.

Eventually you will see the civil case is doomed as far as the plaintiff. Of course at that time you’ll post that you knew it all along .

[LexInVA]

@cutter99

I don’t know too many addicts that are physically fit and combat ready.

Emphasis on the “don’t know”. There are a lot of modern-day addicts who are gym/fitness nuts or perfectly normal looking and you wouldn’t know they were addicts unless someone told you or you witnessed specific behavior associated with addicts. The historical notion that addicts are always skinny, shriveled up sacks of meat and bone is something that really went out of the textbooks decades ago and it only holds true with specific kinds of regular drug use, such as meth.

[Sdel]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Regardless of what RG and LK say happened when MB arrived at the farmhouse that day, my interpretation of the jury’s finding of fact is that MB, in a delusional state and a rage, transported himself and a loaded gun to their physical location”.

They are the only two that can say how that gun got there. And if they are unbelievable liars….then where does that leave them. I certainly got the sense that there is more to the office access than the small peek we got.

[BrownDerby]

This. Just ask a cop or an EMT.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

Since we are now discussing the civil trial, is your point that you predict that MBs team will attempt to defend against the suit by trying to establish that MB was acting in self defense

Again, if you read the civil suit you will see that MB has absolutely asserted self defense in his answer.

“I think there is a zero % chance that MBs lawyers will try to defend against the suit by trying to establish MB acted in self defense.”

Sorry my quote function broke

I think there’s a 100% chance you’re wrong, since they already asserted that in their answer.

OK. MBs counterclaim was filed early on at a time when he was pleading both self defense and insanity in the criminal trial.

Time passes.

The self defense claim got zero traction in the criminal case, and the verdict in the criminal case indicates that the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he shot her while legally insane.

I understand that in writing the defense or counterclaim, one attempts to keep every option open.

I will rephrase by saying that, given the outcome of the criminal trial on the claim of self defense, it is very difficult for me to imagine his civil lawyers putting their effort into that claim.

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I will rephrase by saying that, given the outcome of the criminal trial on the claim of self defense, it is very difficult for me to imagine his civil lawyers putting their effort into that claim.

Why? Just because Judge T didn’t allow any evidence of self defense in doesn’t mean Judge Sceusi will lean the same way. Plus, what’s allowed in is vastly different in the civil arena.

If I were his attorneys, I’d be even more determined to get that previously excluded info out there.

[eggbutt]

@CurrentlyHorseless

The self defense claim got zero traction in the criminal case

It got zero traction because of Taylor’s decisions! Did you even watch the trial?

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

I think there is a zero % chance that MBs lawyers will try to defend against the suit by trying to establish MB acted in self defense

But… we don’t know what other evidence might come into play during the civil trial. Texts that spoke to the alleged “plan” , all those recordings, various party’s prior arrest records, etc.

It sure seems possible for that MBs attorneys might try and defend him against the civil suit by claiming self defense. Why not? Couldn’t they argue he was a broken man, in the midst of a psychological crisis involving a delusional disorder involving a belief that these two people represented an imminent threat to MHGs children, thus he arrived at the scene with a weapon… at which point these two people, both of whom have a demonstrated violent criminal history (look at their arrest records), attacked him.

It seems possible to argue that. Especially if there are texts out there speaking about some sort of pre-existing plan to frame MB for something…

It’s very difficult for a man who arrives at the physical location the others with a loaded gun to argue self defense.

[DownYonder]

General comment that I wonder why certain posters here feel it is so important to push the narrative that RG is a “hero.”

Are they trying to convince someone that he is worthy of keeping around (so he can reap the benefits of a potential settlement in the civil suits)?

Or are they trying to schmooze him in hopes he can be depended on regarding his testimony during depositions, etc.?

Or both? Or other scenarios?