MB update

[cutter99]

@LexInVA

@cutter99

I don’t know too many addicts that are physically fit and combat ready.

Emphasis on the “don’t know”. There are a lot of modern-day addicts who are gym/fitness nuts or perfectly normal looking and you wouldn’t know they were addicts unless someone told you or you witnessed specific behavior associated with addicts. The historical notion that addicts are always skinny, shriveled up sacks of meat and bone is something that really went out of the textbooks decades ago and it only holds true with specific kinds of regular drug use, such as meth.

I live in the poor, rural South. We have a preponderance of two types of addicts here- pill billies and meth addicts.

Believe me, these people do not have gym memberships!

[Knights_Mom]

@LexInVA

@cutter99

I don’t know too many addicts that are physically fit and combat ready.

Emphasis on the “don’t know”. There are a lot of modern-day addicts who are gym/fitness nuts or perfectly normal looking and you wouldn’t know they were addicts unless someone told you or you witnessed specific behavior associated with addicts. The historical notion that addicts are always skinny, shriveled up sacks of meat and bone is something that really went out of the textbooks decades ago and it only holds true with specific kinds of regular drug use, such as meth.

Yeah check the jail system! Tons of gym nuts who are addicts.

[Angela_Freda]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

The problem all along for LK is her propensity to talk, text, comment online… you name it. It’s all going to catch up with her sooner or later, and when it does, she will be hoisted upon her own petard. So to speak. It’s inevitable.

Well, it wouldn’t be (a problem) if it was the truth every time, everywhere.

[Sdel]

@CurrentlyHorseless

It’s very difficult for a man who arrives at the physical location the others with a loaded gun to argue self defense.

Only two liars that had access to the office, and pre-knowledge of the gun, and got all the residents guarding the office kicked out the night before, can place MB with bringing the gun. Emphasis, sworn under oath testified to be liars.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

I will rephrase by saying that, given the outcome of the criminal trial on the claim of self defense, it is very difficult for me to imagine his civil lawyers putting their effort into that claim.

Why? Just because Judge T didn’t allow any evidence of self defense in doesn’t mean Judge Sceusi will lean the same way. Plus, what’s allowed in is vastly different in the civil arena.

If I were his attorneys, I’d be even more determined to get that previously excluded info out there.

Judge T didn’t allow arguing a defense of self defense because Barisone’s lawyers had not presented any evidence that would support the claim of self defense.

What is the evidence that it was self defense? If there is evidence that it was self defense, why didn’t Bilinkas present it?

[cutter99]

@Knights_Mom

@MHM

@cutter99

This post points out to me the absurdity that people believe RG is such a hero. Wasn’t RG’s height testified to as bring about 5’9” or less?

Yet he somehow got behind an “active shooter”, as certain posters would like us to believe, who was 6’3” and very fit. And RG was able to get this much taller man, 6” taller, in a reverse choke hold and choke him out while standing?

Yeah, my money is on the fact it did not happen this way, and MB was already on the ground, dog bitten and beat about the head, with a severely damaged arm and head injury, until the “hero” put him in a chokehold.

I also think people get carried away or distracted by the difference in size between the two men. Yes, MB was taller and probably fitter than RG.

But MB spent his life riding dressage horses. RG claimed to have experience as a Marine, including combat training, combined with a long history of shady criminal behavior, according to his extensive arrest record.

Which of those two people is likely to have a much bigger advantage in a physical altercation? Regardless of their relative size?

Especially if one expects to fight being more of a street cat and the other is not being more of a house cat and so not expecting a fistfight.

This is exactly my point. MB was not expecting a physical fight, and RG had him on the ground to choke him.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

Since we are now discussing the civil trial, is your point that you predict that MBs team will attempt to defend against the suit by trying to establish that MB was acting in self defense

Again, if you read the civil suit you will see that MB has absolutely asserted self defense in his answer.

“I think there is a zero % chance that MBs lawyers will try to defend against the suit by trying to establish MB acted in self defense.”

Sorry my quote function broke

I think there’s a 100% chance you’re wrong, since they already asserted that in their answer.

OK. MBs counterclaim was filed early on at a time when he was pleading both self defense and insanity in the criminal trial.

Time passes.

The self defense claim got zero traction in the criminal case, and the verdict in the criminal case indicates that the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he shot her while legally insane.

I understand that in writing the defense or counterclaim, one attempts to keep every option open.

I will rephrase by saying that, given the outcome of the criminal trial on the claim of self defense, it is very difficult for me to imagine his civil lawyers putting their effort into that claim.

The fact that self defense wasn’t allowed in the criminal case has ZERO to do with the civil case.

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Judge T didn’t allow arguing a defense of self defense because Barisone’s lawyers had not presented any evidence that would support the claim of self defense.

What is the evidence that it was self defense? If there is evidence that it was self defense, why didn’t Bilinkas present it?

Well, we don’t know since Judge T didn’t allow it.

[eggbutt]

Back on the ignore list. I’ve tried to have civil discussions with some users but that rabbit hole is way too deep and convoluted with denial to continue with this person further.

Back to the civil trials, I think JK has an inkling of what can/will be brought up without objection and I suspect he is doing his level best to find significant damaging evidence of bad behavior on MB to attempt to offset all that will be presented by Deininger and Bilinkas. In other words, buckle up buttercup!

[Angela_Freda]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Per his own testimony, he was able to get behind MB, and administer a choke hold. Per RGs own testimony, MB lost consciousness and went down when RG applied the reverse chokehold. Presumably MB came to shortly thereafter… but at that point, he was down on the ground, with RG on top of him, per RGs own testimony.

Why then did RG proceed to beat in MBs head AFTER all that? A reverse chokehold is a known technique, that is widely considered one of the most effective ways of subduing an opponent in a hand to hand combat situation. They apparently don’t teach Marines to beat peoples heads into concrete AFTER getting someone in a reverse chokehold. That’s just a criminal street fighting type of move.

And could RG even beat MB in the head if MB wasn’t on the ground, considering the height difference.
He beat his head/face, not his shoulder or chest.
So that had to happen after MB was on the ground.
Right?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

That’s exactly what I think

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

Regardless of what RG and LK say happened when MB arrived at the farmhouse that day, my interpretation of the jury’s finding of fact is that MB, in a delusional state and a rage, transported himself and a loaded gun to their physical location”.

They are the only two that can say how that gun got there. And if they are unbelievable liars….then where does that leave them. I certainly got the sense that there is more to the office access than the small peak we got.

If the jury discarded the testimony of LK and RG because they found it not credible (I don’t think that’s the case, but even if it were), then they were relying on the circumstantial evidence that MB removed the gun from the safe when he interrupted the meeting between MHG and the CPS worker.

You can create fantasy scenarios in which LK removed the gun from the safe the night before, dressed as the wicked witch of the west, and summoned MB telepathically in order to ambush him. The jury had to determine what they think happened. It’s not that.

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

If the jury discarded the testimony of LK and RG because they found it not credible (I don’t think that’s the case, but even if it were), then they were relying on the circumstantial evidence that MB removed the gun from the safe when he interrupted the meeting between MHG and the CPS worker.

You can create fantasy scenarios in which LK removed the gun from the safe the night before, dressed as the wicked witch of the west, and summoned MB telepathically in order to ambush him. The jury had to determine what they think happened. It’s not that.

But we aren’t talking about that jury, in the criminal case. We are talking about a new jury, in a different arena, with a different judge, and quite possibly different evidence admitted, and what that might mean.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

Judge T didn’t allow arguing a defense of self defense because Barisone’s lawyers had not presented any evidence that would support the claim of self defense.

What is the evidence that it was self defense? If there is evidence that it was self defense, why didn’t Bilinkas present it?

Well, we don’t know since Judge T didn’t allow it.

Didn’t allow evidence that MB acted in self defense? What evidence would that be?

Evidence that LK or RG were the ones who had the gun and MB arrived unarmed?

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Didn’t allow evidence that MB acted in self defense? What evidence would that be?

Evidence that LK or RG were the ones who had the gun and MB arrived unarmed?

We. Don’t. Know. Because it was not allowed in that trial. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that in the civil trial we will hear different evidence.

[Angela_Freda]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Do you begrudge RG a certain amount of rage at seeing his girlfriend shot and likely dying when he (heroically) moves to subdue a shooter?

If he thought she was dying, before he subdued MB, such that it enraged him to the point of beating MB senseless…

Why did RG tell her, the only person he could have been instructing to do so, to get the dog, repeatedly, on the 911 recording?

.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@eggbutt

Back to the civil trials, I think JK has an inkling of what can/will be brought up without objection and I suspect he is doing his level best to find significant damaging evidence of bad behavior on MB to attempt to offset all that will be presented by Deininger and Bilinkas. In other words, buckle up buttercup!

So you think JK will continue to fund the legal fight, and encourage an attempt to go on offense?

I would think at some point a sane person would see that there is a substantial risk that even if LK is awarded compensation for her medical bills, MB prevails on his counterclaims, and receives financial compensation. In that situation… attorneys fees might be a wash for both parties. But MBs damages will be substantial given his readily demonstrable loss of income…

And wouldn’t LKs health insurance then be able to claim part of whatever she was awarded in the way of damages for medical expenses?

Anyway… I just see major risks on the horizon for the Kanareks. More so than for MB. Finding a way to settle all civil claims and counterclaims ASAP after MB is released from AK seems like it might be a very wise move.

[Sdel]

@CurrentlyHorseless

If the jury discarded the testimony of LK and RG because they found it not credible (I don’t think that’s the case, but even if it were), then they were relying on the circumstantial evidence that MB removed the gun from the safe when he interrupted the meeting between MHG and the CPS worker.

Probably, but circumstantial evidence is very very weak. Maybe something Taylor didn’t let in would have completely changed the jury’s thinking on that part. Like a more fully fleshed out view of how LK had access to the office.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@eggbutt

Back on the ignore list. I’ve tried to have civil discussions with some users but that rabbit hole is way too deep and convoluted with denial to continue with this person further.

Back to the civil trials, I think JK has an inkling of what can/will be brought up without objection and I suspect he is doing his level best to find significant damaging evidence of bad behavior on MB to attempt to offset all that will be presented by Deininger and Bilinkas. In other words, buckle up buttercup!

If there is evidence of MB physically threatening others, that seems pretty pertinent.

“Significant damaging evidence of bad behavior on MB” prior to the shooting could not be used in the criminal trial, but seems appropriate in the civil trial.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Angela_Freda

If he thought she was dying, before he subdued MB, such that it enraged him to the point of beating MB senseless…

Why did RG tell her, the only person he could have been instructing to do so, to get the dog, repeatedly, on the 911 recording?

He actually yelled at her, very aggressively, using the f bomb.

It sure didn’t sound like he realized she was shot, or if he did, it didn’t sound like he realized her wounds were serious.