My horrible experiences with Texas horse trainer/instructor Ellen Doughty-Hume

I apologize for going further down the EIA track, but have history with the disease that may be of interest. I worked at a polo farm for several years. About 60 horses in the summer; 15 stayed north in the winter while the rest went south. There were sometimes acquisitions and/or sales of horses.

One summer day it was noticed that a green pony was just acting “flat”. Within a day or two it progressed to weakness and lameness. Vet called out: turned out horse had fractured its hip on the stall door when it lost its balance, but the reason for that was a mystery until the bloodwork showed significant anemia. Vet ran a Coggins and it was positive.

Next steps: quarantine whole farm and test and retest all of the horses. Ultimately 4 were positive including the green pony, but none of those 4 horses had left the property in over two years. Further investigation identified an Argentine import that would lose condition every autumn. This mare would just drop weight and develop “bird spots” all over . In a month or so it would pass. All Coggins tests including from her importation two years prior were negative. (And it should be noted that the whole barn was tested at least twice a year because so many went south.) Mare’s samples were finally found to be positive by another testing method that, at the time, was only done at a midwest reference lab. Her traditional Coggins remained negative.

So sometimes, no matter how rigorous you are, diseases will find a way. We were very lucky that no other horses were infected, and none of the positive horses had been leaving the property prior to diagnosis.

Now back to the original discussion.

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I guess my point with the coggins test is that given that we don’t have a better method, testing and euthanizing positive horses is about the best we can do… but don’t fool yourself that a coggins test is some kind of protection or that your horse can’t be infected. He can.

Bringing a horse to a show without a coggins test is only a risk to other horses IF that horse has EIA. And given that no one has alleged that Ellen’s horses HAVE EIA, her “coggins switcheroo,” while wrong for all sorts of OTHER reasons, didn’t put other horses at any more risk than they already faced hauling to a facility with other “strange” horses.

[QUOTE=JP60;8989338]
[ Originally Posted by vxf111 [IMG]http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png)
Thst doesn’t make it ok, it just is no more likely to risk other horses than the accepted practice of relying on a coggins test all year

[/I]

I kind of remember that the USEA issued a change for entry into shows such that you had to show a list of all vaccinations for the past 12 months. I know I had to have it for the AECs.

It blows me away to think that people would fake a Coggins. They’ll blow twice or triple the cost of a coggins, which is good for a year, on one show WTF!

I would rather take the very small risk of some reaction to a vaccine then to put at risk numbers of horses by spreading a disease that could be prevented. Faking medical documents is extremely irresponsible and should even be agaisnt the law.[/QUOTE]

The last 3 shows I went to, they swore to God they were going to mandate you show a health certificate when checking in. And $120 later, I still haven’t been asked for a HC. I had a different vet do my last HC. All it showed was that AT THE TIME OF THE HC, my horse wasn’t currently sick. They are worthless. I can see why some would fake a coggins or HC. It’s like the FDA. FDA approval doesn’t mean safety or efficacy. A health certificate doesn’t mean a well horse.

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flies can fly a mile in 3 minutes, except they don’t. Quarantining a positive horse can actually be as minor as putting them in a different pasture a several yards from other negative horses. Flies tend to hang around about a one yard diameter of property. It is considered “breaking the transmission” if horses are separated by 200 meters.
http://www.vin.com/members/cms/document/default.aspx?objecttypeid=2&template=articleview&objectid=2111792&said=1

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flies can fly a mile in 3 minutes, except they don’t. Quarantining a positive horse can actually be as minor as putting them in a different pasture a several yards from other negative horses. Flies tend to hang around about a one yard diameter of property. It is considered “breaking the transmission” if horses are separated by 200 meters.
http://www.vin.com/members/cms/docum…2111792&said=1

That is what I thought. However, the link leads to a login page so unless you want to pass access around (?), we can’t read the article :frowning:

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Could you all do a spin-off please. I find this train of discussion not applicable to the original post and quite necessary to speak on it’s own.

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[QUOTE=Jennifer Alcott;8989747]
No, they require a negative test for EIA because it’s the law in most, if not all, states in the U.S., not because a piece of paper stating that a horse tested negative for EIA on a particular date infers anything other than that.

See http://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincodeexpand/title2/agency5/chapter70/[/QUOTE]

ugh…its not NO, its YES, this is why in SOME places where I am, they require one. Im not in the US, and Im sure many shows have their own reasons. This is the one I am told most often in Ontario.

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Jealoushe, what you are not getting is that EIA status (reported via Coggins Test), has NOTHING to do with vaccination status. Just because someone has a vet out to draw a Coggins does not imply that the horse was vaccinated for anything.

Shows want a negative Coggins test to show that a horse does not have a titer for EIA. Nothing else.

Vaccination status must now be presented at shows in the US by a record of vaccinations (mostly Rhino and the Encephalitides). Has nothing to do with EIA.

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How do you know the OP on be truthful if you were not there and don’ t do business with the trainer ? Who are " a lot of people " ? I have heard positive things about EDH, when the information wasn’t coming from disgruntled ex-employees or barn owners that thought she stole their boarders who had come to the barn because of EDH. ANd why did OP follow EDH to 3 separate barns if she was so terrible ?

[QUOTE=3dayr;8990419]
How do you know the OP on be truthful if you were not there and don’ t do business with the trainer ? Who are " a lot of people " ? I have heard positive things about EDH, when the information wasn’t coming from disgruntled ex-employees or barn owners that thought she stole their boarders who had come to the barn because of EDH. ANd why did OP follow EDH to 3 separate barns if she was so terrible ?[/QUOTE]

Please help me out - how are you familiar with the situation? Do you believe OP is not truthful? Your post seems to imply that you don’t believe her, so please explain why. For example, her poor horse drowned. Do you disagree? Or, do you think her horse wasn’t taken across state lines for XC schooling without her permission? Also, the “a lot of people” are coming out on FB and using their real names. Do you not believe them either?

OP was very specific in her statement. Your statement above is pretty vague.

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In my experience, someone who is falsifying coggins tests and not getting emergency medical care for even client horses stinks of someone who owes their vet a lot of money.

And to kick in at page 17 of this thread…

This industry has got to start having some respect for amateur owners. These kinds of stories abound and there is no communication about it because we’re scared of the ramifications.

Basically the horse industry needs to realize it’s not the professionals that keep the wheels greased - it’s the amateurs that are buying horses and paying bills.

Never mind, the entire class of “professionals” who think that you should hand your horses over to them to ride while you pay their bills and take on all the risk. That’s a whole 'nother class of complaints from me.

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I thought the only barn employee on this thread was…gruntled? As in still working for Ellen.

It’s so funny to think that reviews of services should be unbiased. Like do we view restaurant reviews as suspicious when a customer has a bad experience? Like “oh you can’t trust this review of uncooked chicken since this person was perfectly happy with their pasta six months ago! What a fraud!!”

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[QUOTE=yaya;8990039]
Jealoushe, what you are not getting is that EIA status (reported via Coggins Test), has NOTHING to do with vaccination status. Just because someone has a vet out to draw a Coggins does not imply that the horse was vaccinated for anything.

Shows want a negative Coggins test to show that a horse does not have a titer for EIA. Nothing else.

Vaccination status must now be presented at shows in the US by a record of vaccinations (mostly Rhino and the Encephalitides). Has nothing to do with EIA.[/QUOTE]

oh my god…tell it to the show organizers, NOT ME. I am well aware of what vaccinations do what and what a coggins is lol. Please read what I wrote again, I was merely sharing the reasons that have been given to me by organizers.

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Could you all do a spin-off please. I find this train of discussion not applicable to the original post and quite necessary to speak on it’s own.


This. Please. Let the house guest speak (3dayR)

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Blaze, who got his coggins pulled and came back negative last week, but who in the meantime contracted EIA from a mosquito bite and nobody yet knows.

Minor point, but mosquitoes re not a common vector for EIA.
Mainly spread by biting flies.

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Many, if not most, show venues which request a current Coggins test do so not in the hope that it also signifies recent vaccination, but because state livestock regulations specify that they do so.

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I agree, can we please take the coggins talk to another thread?

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200 yards is the required distance for quarantine of EIA-positive horses. Transmission over a 3 mile distance is vanishingly unlikely.

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Many, if not most, show venues which request a current Coggins test do so not in the hope that it also signifies recent vaccination, but because state livestock regulations specify that they do so.

Do recognized Events not require the EHV vaccination form that you need for other shows? Again, not actually proof the horse doesn’t have anything, since the vaccination isn’t good for the kind of EHV that’s caused problems at shows, but, USEF says we have to come with a copy of the record for H/J shows, and I know I’ve submitted it at the two licensed Dressage shows I did this year too. That would be a better signifier of some kind of vaccination protocol. Is it not required at Events? I haven’t done one since that rule went into place.

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I have been following this thread since it started. I do not know Stormy or EDH. But I am so very sorry for what the OP has had happen to her. Losing a horse is not easy under any circumstances and losing one to something that could have been prevented (getting horse out of a flooding pasture) has got to be unimaginable.

But what 3dayr wrote really got to me.

“How do you know the OP on be truthful if you were not there and don’ t do business with the trainer ? Who are " a lot of people " ? I have heard positive things about EDH, when the information wasn’t coming from disgruntled ex-employees or barn owners that thought she stole their boarders who had come to the barn because of EDH. ANd why did OP follow EDH to 3 separate barns if she was so terrible ?”

I have been riding, eventing and boarding horses for over 39 years. I have switched barns, trainers, vets, farriers, etc… during those years. If someone were to ask me my opinion about the former professionals I have used in those years the majority of my opinions would be favorable.

Sure, sometimes you may leave a trainer, barn, etc… because you were not happy. But it would take A LOT of bad juju for many horse people to “bash” someone. I have found that most horse people tend to be diplomatic in circumstances that may cause someone to give a negative review of someone. Mostly you would hear statements like “trainer X was just not a good fit for my personality (or horse’s personality)”, “I wanted to be at a boarding facility closer to home/work”, “trainer X was always so busy going to shows and since I’m not competing right now it was hard to schedule ride times”…and the list goes on.
You see, the horse world is very small and most horse people know this.

But being diplomatic is not just reserved for the horse world. Ask anyone about their current place of employment and you are most likely to hear either positive things or maybe vague things. But ask someone about a former employer and they are more likely to tell you the TRUTH (good and/or bad).

I put more weight in the comments about EDH from her former students, former BO’s and former employees than I do from anyone that is currently involved with her. Why? Because the “former” ones will most likely be telling the truth (whether it is positive or negative).

It would be nice if 3dayr could come back on, think for a bit before typing, and try to convince me that EDH is not the person that most people have stated she is.

And again Stormy, I am so very sorry for your experiences and your loses. My heart goes out to you. Big {{{HUGS}}} from the PNW.

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