My horrible experiences with Texas horse trainer/instructor Ellen Doughty-Hume

[ILikeBigBaysAndICann]

I would be curious to know the contents of that fb email…

[wronglead]

Have been following this post and have nothing of true worth to add…

But has anyone considered getting a TV show like “Bar Rescue” except with crazy, negligent Trainers and BOs? I would really like to see that become a thing. And this trainer/barn could be the premier episode :lol:

[IrishWillow]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;9017155]
Hope these clients see this red flag for what it is. If my trainer was wanting me to delete and block people on Facebook I would be a bit concerned.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree. Its a total red flag. But, a way of damage control in hopes of keeping clients from seeing the truth, I would think.

[pictureonemore]

Thanks Irish Willow. Sometimes I just assume there’s so much room in my cavernous head that everyone knows what I’m talkin’ about!

And not so anonymous that I didn’t get a personal email from EDH on my Facebook so… Before I was unfriended.

I would be curious to know the contents of that fb email…

If it’s anything remotely along the lines of the text that Stormy received, I’m sure it’s just par for the course. If a trainer is instructing their students/boarders/kool-aid drinkers to delete and block people on Facebook who doesn’t agree with them, I have zero faith in the any message containing the next uplifting quote featured on Goodreads. EDH does not equate Gandhi when she comes to mind…

[flaxenfilly23]

I was a bit dumbfounded when Ellen first blocked me. I had done absolutely nothing to her except help Stormy move her horses out of Ellen’s barn and offer to keep some of them at my place. I never once spoke ill of her to anyone except my very closest friends. I certainly didn’t lose any sleep over it, but it amused me that helping someone leave her barn was grounds for not only being unfriended, but also for being blocked.

When several of the boarders at her barn recently unfriended and blocked me, it did make me a little disappointed though. Yes, I have issues with your trainer, but I have done absolutely nothing to any of you ladies. As a matter of fact, even after all of this started, I tried to help (in a very minor way) one of you find a project pony for your daughter. I hope one day you are able to take a step back and realize that the people speaking out on this thread have absolutely nothing to gain by doing so, except make sure new potential clients are able to make well informed decisions. If you were seriously asked to unfriend and block people by Ellen, just stop and think about that for a second. What kind of person, let alone professional, does that? Someone extremely manipulative with an ego complex. In a weird way, I hope you never learn, because I don’t want anything bad to befall any of you, but if one day you do, I hope you realize there were 100 warning signs you should have listened to and this was one of them.

[ladyj79]

Narcissists never learn: they just find new people to manipulate.

[WasthatC]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;9017155]
Hope these clients see this red flag for what it is. If my trainer was wanting me to delete and block people on Facebook I would be a bit concerned.[/QUOTE]

My trainer isn’t on Facebook. I suddenly like her even more. :winkgrin:

[WB_Mom]

I can’t even IMAGINE my trainer ever asking me to block anyone on social media. How utterly absurd. My internet presence has NOTHING to do with hers.
Again, it looks as if all of this is being handled by a 13 year old girl - you are my friends so you have to block this person who said something ‘bad’ about me. Wow. Really?
Obviously EDH either has not thought this through, or simply doesn’t care that she is digging her hole even deeper by actions such as this.
As this unfolds she is most certainly providing a clearer and clearer picture of exactly the type of person she is and what is truly important to her - and so far it appears that would be her, and nothing else.
Dig away!

[DrBeckett]

Can you picture Philip Dutton or William Fox Pitt doing this crap? She will never be in their class, that’s for sure.

[IrishWillow]

She’s made several campaigns / requests for funds for a new upper level prospect. That is concerning.

[Sparrowette]

For those of you who know EDH – How many of these traits do you believe she has exhibited?

http://www.ilrctbay.com/upload/custom/abuse/content/abusers.htm

I’ve lived with an abuser, and know that limiting social contact is one of the methods of control an abuser will use. One time, when I was much younger and better looking, a man was looking at me when I was out with “Old Mr. S”. He told me “Make him quit looking at you!!” How was I supposed to do that?? Abusers will say and do things that aren’t always rational.

Things have been mentioned on the board here that have made me wonder. But, of course, I’m not looking for a clinical diagnosis. Even a clinician will need to have one-on-one access to a patient to diagnose. And even though the list is mainly formatted for application to a romantic couple, I hope we can overlook that aspect and ask: Out of the items shown on this list, what have you, who know her, seen in her?

(List copied here from: Independent Living Resource Centre for Thunder Bay and the Northwestern Ontario Region, for posterity, in case at some point they change their website)
[h=1]"Characteristics of Abusers[/h]If the person you love or live with does these things, it’s time to get help:

• Keeps track of what you are doing all the time and criticizes you for little things.
• Constantly accuses you of being unfaithful.
• Prevents or discourages you from seeing friends or family, or going to work or school.
• Gets angry when drinking alcohol or using drugs.
• Controls all the money you spend.
• Humiliates you in front of others.
• Destroys your property or things that you care about.
• Threatens to hurt you or the children or pets, or does cause hurt (by hitting, punching, slapping, kicking, or biting).
• Uses or threatens to use a weapon against you.
• Forces you to have sex against your will.
• Blames you for his/her violent outbursts.

[h=3][B]Characteristics of Abusers...[/B]Warning signs of potential violence:[/h]

• Abuser pacing the floor
• Clenching/unclenching fists
• Facial expression (glaring)
• Shouting/yelling

Always be conscious of your own safety needs in all interactions involving an abusive person. Do not meet privately with a violence-prone individual. If you [I]must do so, [/I]be sure someone is available close by in case you need help. [h=3]Abusers frequently have the following characteristics:[/h]

• Often blow up in anger at small incidents. He or she is often easily insulted, claiming hurt feelings when he or she is really very angry.
• Are excessively jealous: At the beginning of a relationship, an abuser may claim that jealousy is a sign of his or her love. Jealousy has nothing to do with love.
• Like to isolate victim: He or she may try to cut you off from social supports, accusing the people who act as your support network of "causing trouble."
• Have a poor self-image; are insecure.
• Blame others for their own problems.
• Blame others for their own feelings and are very manipulative. An abusive person will often say "you make me mad", "you're hurting me by not doing what I ask", or "I can't help being angry".
• Often are alcohol or drug abusers.
• May have a family history of violence.
• May be cruel to animals and/or children.
• May have a fascination with weapons.
• May think it is okay to solve conflicts with violence.
• Often make threats of violence, breaking or striking objects.
• Often use physical force during arguments.
• Often use verbal threats such as, "I'll slap your mouth off", "I'll kill you", or "I'll break your neck". Abusers may try to excuse this behaviour by saying, "everybody talks like that".
• May hold rigid stereotypical views of the roles of men and women. The abuser may see women as inferior to men, stupid, and unable to be a whole person without a relationship.
• Are very controlling of others. Controlling behaviours often grow to the point where victims are not allowed to make personal decisions.
• May act out instead of expressing themselves verbally.
• May be quick to become involved in relationships. Many battered women dated or knew their abuser for less than six months before they were engaged or living together.
• May have unrealistic expectations. The abuser may expect his or her partner to fulfill all his or her needs. The abusive person may say, "If you love me, I'm all you need- you're all I need".
• May use "playful" force during sex, and/or may want to act out sexual fantasies in which the victim is helpless.
• May say things that are intentionally cruel and hurtful in order to degrade, humiliate, or run down the victim's accomplishments.
• Tend to be moody and unpredictable. They may be nice one minute and the next minute explosive. Explosiveness and mood swings are typical of men who beat their partners.
• May have a history of battering: the abuser may admit to hitting others in the past, but will claim the victim "asked for" it. An abuser will beat any woman he is with; situational circumstances do not make a person abusive.

Click to Return to Top [h=3]How dangerous is the abuser? Assessing lethality in an abuse situation:[/h]Some domestic violence is life threatening. All domestic violence is dangerous, but some abusers are more likely to kill than others and some are more likely to kill at specific times. The likelihood of homicide is greater when the following factors are present:

[LIST=1]

[B]Threats of homicide or suicide: [/B]The abuser may threaten to kill himself, the victim, the children, relatives, friends, or someone else;

[B]Plans for homicide or suicide:[/B] The more detailed the abuser's plan and the more available the method, the greater the risk he will use deadly force;

[B]Weapons:[/B] The abuser possesses weapons, and has threatened to use them in the past against the victim, the children, or himself. If the abuser has a history of arson, fire should be considered a weapon;

[B]"Ownership" of the victim:[/B] The abuser says things like "If I can't have you no one can" or "I would rather see you dead than have you divorce me". The abuser believes he is absolutely entitled to the obedience and loyalty of the victim;

[B]Centrality of victim to the abuser:[/B] The abuser idolizes the victim, depending heavily on him or her to organize and sustain the abuser's life, or the abuser isolates the victim from outside supports;

[B]Separation violence:[/B] The abuser believes he is about to lose the victim;

[B]Repeated calls to law enforcement:[/B] A history of violence is indicated by repeated police involvement;

[B]Escalation of risk-taking:[/B] The abuser has begun to act without regard to legal or social consequences that previously constrained his violence; and

[B]Hostage taking: [/B]He is desperate enough to risk the life of innocent persons by taking hostages. There is a very serious likelihood of the situation turning deadly. [/LIST] Click to Return to Top [h=3][B]Battered and Abused Men:[/B][/h]Most of us recognize that men experience verbal and emotional abuse at the hands of women, less well accepted or admitted is the fact of physical abuse. In our society, we think of women as the victims and men as the aggressors in physical abuse. The fact that women are more likely to be severely injured in domestic violence adds to the problem of recognizing male abuse. Nevertheless, it happens - frequently. In fact, men are just as likely to be seriously injured when a woman becomes violent because women are more likely to use weapons in the course of an assault. If a male client indicates that his girlfriend or partner assaulted him, believe him. A man will find it harder to discuss his pain with you than will a woman, and even harder to admit to being a victim. It is easier to attribute an injury to a sports mishap or workplace accident than to admit to a doctor or police officer it resulted from domestic violence. [h=3]Facts:[/h] [LIST=1]

Fewer men report abuse. They are ashamed to report being abused by women.

Health care and law enforcement professionals are more likely to accept alternative explanations of abuse from a man. They will believe other reasons for the presence of bruises and other signs of injury.

Our justice system often takes the word of the woman above the word of the man in abuse cases. It is just more believable that the aggressor was the man, not the woman.

Men are more likely to tolerate the pain of abuse than women. They "grin and bear it" more. And again, many are ashamed to seek medical help for abuse.

Unless a woman uses a weapon, she usually does not have the strength to inflict injury. [/LIST] Abused men are as likely as their female counterparts are to have low self-esteem. People can come to believe that they are somehow responsible for what happened. People cling to the hope that things will get better: that the woman he "loves" will quit when their relationship is better adjusted, or the children get older and show more responsibility. These are all pretty much the same excuses women make for remaining with men who batter them. [h=3]Are you abused? Does the person you love…[/h]

• "Track" all of your time?
• Constantly accuse you of being unfaithful?
• Discourage your relationships with family and friends?
• Prevent you from working or attending school?
• Criticize you for little things?
• Become angry easily when drinking or abusing drugs?
• Control all finances and force you to account for what you spend?
• Humiliate you in front of others?
• Destroy your personal property or items with sentimental value?
• Hit, punch, slap, kick, or bite you or the children?
• Use or threaten to use a weapon against you?
• Threaten to hurt you or hurt the children?
• Force you to have sex against your will?

[h=3]Below is a list of things Jerry can do to help himself:[/h]

• Tell friends he trusts.
• Make safety arrangements such as: [LIST]
• Leaving the relationship;
• Finding a safe place to go; and
• Changing his phone number and/or locks.

Telephone a domestic violence hotline or shelter and:

Talk to a worker;

Find out about his legal rights; or

See a counsellor - separately or with Lisa.

Gain the support of witnesses, when possible.

Take notes detailing dates, times and what occurred.

Phone 911 when Lisa becomes physically abusive. [/LIST] [h=3][B]Abuse Checklists:[/B][/h]Below is a self-assessment quiz to help you determine if you are being abused. You may be suffering abuse even if you answer, "Yes" to only a few questions. [h=3]You may be becoming or already are a victim of abuse if you:[/h]

• Feel like you have to "walk on eggshells" to keep him/her from getting angry and are frightened by his/her temper.
• Feel you can't live without him/her.
• Stop seeing other friends or family, or give up activities you enjoy because he/she doesn't like them.
• Are afraid to tell him/her your worries and feelings about the relationship.
• Are often compliant because you are afraid to hurt his/her feelings; and have the urge to "rescue" him/her when he/she is troubled.
• Feel that you are the only one who can help him/her and that you should try to "reform" him/her.
• Find yourself apologizing to yourself or others for your partner's behaviour when you are treated badly.
• Stop expressing opinions if he/she doesn't agree with them.
• Stay because you feel he/she will kill him/herself if you leave.
• Believe that his/her jealousy is a sign of love.
• Have been kicked, hit, shoved, or had things thrown at you by him/her when he/she was jealous or angry.
• Believe the critical things he/she says to make you feel bad about yourself.
• Believe that there is something wrong with you if you don't enjoy the sexual things he/she makes you do.
• Believe in the traditional ideas of what a man and a woman should be and do -- that the man makes the decisions and the woman pleases him."

[macmtn]

Thank you for this. It needs to be posted in every school, public place and cop shop.

[OverandOnward]

It would be smarter to let this thread go, but oh well … I don’t intend these remarks to defend anyone (as can be seen by my previous post in this thread). I do think we all owe ourselves an honest look at the way many barns are run … because a number of the things that happened to Stormy’s horses could have happened at other barns with other BNT’s who follow many of the same practices.

I seriously doubt it is EDH’s intention to abuse horses. That would be completely contradictory to her clear goals to advance in the eventing world and to build her local business.

I think what the more factual posts in this thread show is something rather more complex. Equine management practices that are questionable - but by no means unique to EDH’s barn - if we are honest with ourselves. In many disciplines. Many private owners do some of these same things. The difference that led to the very negative outcomes in these cases seem to have been some very bad judgment calls. And those are not unique to just one person or barn, either.

And, it is hardly unusual that a strong personality is involved. There is no shortage of forceful personalities among 4* riders and certain top riders in other disciplines as well. Doesn’t make some of this behavior right, but singling out one ignores others that could also use a few charm school classes (or semesters).

Clearly there are positives in EDH’s barn, and it’s no surprise that some owners are attracted to board there. Among the positives are someone acting as the ‘equine manager’ who comes across as knowledgeable about treating basic lameness and illness scenarios, as well as WS’s who can provide in-barn treatment. There’s even a Theraplate. This is hardly an abusive set-up. In fact, it’s the way most high-end barns are run. (Some of which doubtless wish they had a Theraplate.)

It’s the judgment calls on when to actively involve the vet and even turn a situation entirely over to the vet clinic that seem to be so alarming. For example, if the decision-maker can’t monitor the situation frequently for any reason, then send the horse to the clinic so the clinic can do it. That’s part of the cost of ownership. (And why it is necessary to have those vet clauses in board contracts.) Owners are emotional about their horses; better to do it properly than to do it cheap.

There are many trainers including BNT’s, barn managers and self-care owners who will self-diagnose and treat equine problems with which they have prior experience (e.g. abscess; minor colic). There are many high-end barns and racing trainers who regularly administer banamine, as well as the IV leg treatment and other things that are technically reserved for licensed veterinarians. Not saying it is right that this goes on, but in no way can EDH be singled out as uniquely in the wrong.

Right now, somewhere, the in-barn treatment given to Stormy’s horses is happening with some other horses in some other barn. Hopefully those barns will learn from what happened in Stormy’s case.

Perhaps there was a well-meaning but misguided attempt to save the owner from vet bills. MANY horse people are in that boat.

I don’t believe anyone in the scenarios in this thread was trying to hurt a client’s horse. Many of the criticisms of this barn could very well be applied to other high-end, BNT barns as well. But I do believe that egregious mistakes were made that did harm horses. Mistakes that could be made by a good many other barns as well who are also trying to treat in-barn, and thereby putting the barn at risk, as well as the horses.

I think the hard lessons of this thread apply to more than one professional trainer / barn manager. Just IMO.

[vxf111]

The difference is NOTIFICATION OF THE OWNER. I’m ok with my trainer/BM dealing with a simple ailment they think they can handle but they must tell me immediately and then abide by my decision if I decide I want the vet instead

[BigMama1]

Poor judgement just seems to be a recurring theme here. Not notifying owners of illness or injury, not feeding what they claim to be feeding, turning out in severe storms…I have not ever boarded somewhere where the BO or BM consistently made and decisions regarding the care of clients’ horses.

[pictureonemore]

I could understand if there were a few instances here and there. Accidents happen and no one is perfect. However, what this thread demonstrates to me is that the issues and complaints surrounding EDH are chronic, bordering on pathological. It’s not like these things have happened only to Stormy, and just recently. They span years, with dozens of people. In my opinion, you can no longer chalk that up to “well, it happens elsewhere, so it’s kinda sorta not really a huge deal, kinda”. And if we, as owners/boarders/etc don’t start speaking out about these sorts of things, how is anything going to change and/or people to be held accountable for such chronic transgressions?

[OverandOnward]

In my opinion, you can no longer chalk that up to “well, it happens elsewhere, so it’s kinda sorta not really a huge deal, kinda”. And if we, as owners/boarders/etc don’t start speaking out about these sorts of things, how is anything going to change and/or people to be held accountable for such chronic transgressions?

It IS a huge deal. It misses the point of my post if it is read as saying ‘it’s ok, it’s not that unusual’. The point is not just that this all happens elsewhere, in name barns. The point is that such default responses on the part of many barn managements need to CHANGE.

We don’t really know if the number of incidents is unusual or not. That is information isn’t always known even among a barn’s own boarders. There are no stats. There is just what we think we know, and we do not know everything.

My point, based on many of the responses in this thread, is that, as boarders, it’s nice to tell ourselves ‘That can’t happen in my barn. That can’t happen to my horses.’.

But Stormy didn’t think she had this to worry about, and many of us are in the same shoes without realizing it. Holding out on calling owners, holding out on calling a vet, going too far with ineffective in-barn treatment … those types of practices in many barns, including ‘name’ barns, are not ok, they need to change, and THAT is my point.

[ladyj79]

I don’t think it is that normal for a good professional to regularly be kicked out of facilities and be reprimanded at shows and steal from places theyve been kicked out of and not care about the repercussions of their actions.

Really, it’s not that normal. Let’s not normalize this too much, it’s pretty extreme.

[OverandOnward]

I don’t think it is that normal for a good professional to regularly be kicked out of facilities and be reprimanded at shows and steal from places theyve been kicked out of and not care about the repercussions of their actions.

Really, it’s not that normal. Let’s not normalize this too much, it’s pretty extreme.

I agree.

That is a different problem than the vet issues. The vet issues should be a wake-up call to a broader range of people.

The other stuff is a whole other set of very serious issues. It’s a multi-layered situation. IMO

[Scribbler]

I’ve been following this thread, and by now I’m fully persuaded that EDH is highly problematic! No argument there.

But I wanted to comment on the discussion about EDH “unfriending” and blocking folks on Facebook, and then getting her clients to do the same. It’s actually an effective way to do damage control or brand management on Facebook.

Once you are “blocked” by someone, all their FB activity becomes invisible to you. You can’t even see that they have a FB profile. But you also can’t see anything they post on any one else’s sites, either. So let’s say you and EDH both belong to a FB group called “Texas Eventing” or “Dallas Horse Classifieds.” If EDH puts up a promotion for her barn, you won’t see it. If all her clients chime in and praise her, you won’t see it. If EDH comments on something on the page of a mutual friend, you won’t see it. If any of her clients who have blocked you praise her, you won’t see their comments. And if they say bad things about you or your program, you won’t see it either.

This is a very effective way of shutting down criticism about a business on Facebook, since the business will only be visible to people who haven’t yet criticized it, which after all is her target market.

If there has never been the least breath of criticism of her up to now, it’s also highly likely that she’s employed the “block” function effectively in the past as well.

So it’s not (just) a psychotic test of loyalty for her clients, to ask them to block anyone who is criticizing her. It’s also a savvy “brand management” strategy, and allows her to continue to operate in an effectively criticism-free environment on FB.