My horrible experiences with Texas horse trainer/instructor Ellen Doughty-Hume

[Rockfish]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Kudos to the folks who were brave enough to share their experiences. It’s the only way others will have any idea of issues, if they try and do due diligence prior to picking a trainer or boarding facility.

With today’s technology, it’s all too easy for people to have Facebook and Yelp records that only show the reviews people want shown. Everyone only has 5 star reviews. People who have ridden and competed in an area for a few years are probably sufficiently networked to have heard enough shedrow gossip to know which trainers and barns have spotty reputations, but those who are new to an area… Or non horse savvy parents of enthusiastic kids are essentially flying blind.

It’s really unfortunate when current boarders and clients get caught up in these situations, and decide to jump in and defend their trainer of choice. It’s pretty easy to accuse any client who ever left a barn and decided to speak up of being “disgruntled.” However, when muktiple folks who left a place decide to publicly share experiences under their own names, and take the inevitable heat (horse communities are all pretty much small and gossipy)… That should be a red flag regarding a serious problem.

I recently left a short term boarding situation, that had much in common with what was shared about this situation in Texas. A much smaller scale barn though, with most clients only doing low level schooling shows. Myself, and three other folks who left at a similar time decided to write Google reviews… Which can’t be deleted… Just to put a “marker” out there publicly that the place and trainer were questionable. Our experiences were all bad enough to warrant it. We kept reviews short, vague, and undramatic, except for one written by an ex employee of the farm, who wrote a long detailed review and gave the place one star. She left out far more than she shared, but she did recount witnessing horses being beaten repeatedly, and dangerous situations involving lesson kids falling off repeatedly while schooling cross country, and some other things about poor stable management practices.

Within hours, the trainer had gotten all current clients, and relatives of clients organized and posting 5 star reviews on every site possible. Facenook, Yelp, super pages, Google, you name it. Multiple current clients decided to name one of the former clients, who is a 21 year old girl, and cyber bully her by name… Calling her a crybaby, trouble maker… You name it. Folks were following her at shows for a while too, and sending nasty texts. It was a VERY unpleasant situation.

I recently was chatting with a very experienced breeder and trainer friend about the whole debacle, and questioning the wisdom in speaking up. My horses and I had moved on… and perhaps I should have just left well enough alone. The backlash from speaking out was a miserable experience for myself, the other clients and former employee of this place who did… All of us were harrassed. My friend… Who has been involved with horses for 40 years was unequivocal though… Her rule is IF speaking up might save a child or horse from harm… Then do it.

Still… Mobs of crazy horse people emphatically defending their trainer are no fun… at all. It’s too bad governing bodies aren’t playing more of an active role when situations like this come up, and taking measures to “suspend” active endorsement of certain professionals while the investigate. Horses are expensive and dangerous, and bad barns and trainers can, and do, lead to any number of nightmare outcomes…

When clients come into the barn and pit other clients against each other and staff, they should be asked to leave. It’s funny how the bullies are always the first to say they are the victims in an incident they create. Mothers have every right to defend their children, especially when someone who plays the victims targets their children on social media. Reminds me of of someone important in this country I know of.

Go. Away. Your last thread got deleted on here. You have been reported. Again.

ps. I find it funny that every time our barn has a good outing, one of you comes online to gossip, belittle,and lie about us.

[vineyridge]

I personally think that it’s odd that people like to bitch, but when it comes to actually doing something about it, there is no follow up. We all hate what the FEI is doing to eventing, but when they had an election last year for the rider representative on the Eventing Committee, fewer than 100 people actually voted. Anyone who rode in a 1* or above or maintained their FEI status was eligible to vote. I gave a heads up here, and if all the people who compete in FEI events had voted, they could have made a difference. Of course the choice was between KOC and Daisy Dick, so maybe the choices weren’t appealing. But you all have a right to contact the rider representative about the things you care about. You can find the FEI rider representative contact info on the FEI website.

The FEI has accepted complaints against its riders who commit horse abuse at their training facilities. So, find a FEI rider who will file the complaint against this woman. I haven’t seen that either USEA or USEF have such policy. The FEI is the only open avenue with teeth that I can see in this situation. So USE it.

[Texarkana]

@vineyridge

I personally think that it’s odd that people like to bitch, but when it comes to actually doing something about it, there is no follow up. We all hate what the FEI is doing to eventing, but when they had an election last year for the rider representative on the Eventing Committee, fewer than 100 people actually voted. Anyone who rode in a 1* or above or maintained their FEI status was eligible to vote. I gave a heads up here, and if all the people who compete in FEI events had voted, they could have made a difference. Of course the choice was between KOC and Daisy Dick, so maybe the choices weren’t appealing. But you all have a right to contact the rider representative about the things you care about. You can find the FEI rider representative contact info on the FEI website.

The FEI has accepted complaints against its riders who commit horse abuse at their training facilities. So, find a FEI rider who will file the complaint against this woman. I haven’t seen that either USEA or USEF have such policy. The FEI is the only open avenue with teeth that I can see in this situation. So USE it.

I agree people need to vote if they are eligible, but voting would not change this situation.

FEI (as well as USEA, USEF, etc.) can accept protests, but correct me if I’m wrong, there needs to be evidence of the abuse occurring on their showgrounds in order to take action.

So far, allegations that occurred on actual showgrounds are not actionable: dogs off leashes, dogs with questionable vaccination status, adjusting the height of fences, lunging for a longish period of time, hash-tagging about your horses’ lack of conditioning… at most, these could garner a slap on the wrist from organizers.

Unless law enforcement brings charges against her at home, or her horses show signs of abuse at an event, no governing body of competitions can rule against her.

[WB_Mom]

After hearing about the dog situation, perhaps all events should require proof of vaccination for all dogs brought to an event. If a dog contracted something at an event due to unvaccinated dogs being there is it possible the event could be held liable?

[SendenHorse]

As much as I am very sympathetic, I agree that this really isn’t USEF/FEI’s problem and is more of a welfare problem (local authorities),

Now if they are making her some sort of spokesperson, then by all means this will be a problem.

I just don’t want a horse show association blamed for not taking action, when I’m not sure it’s their problem? The doc vac rule would be very hard to enforce and again I don’t think it’s a good use of time/money/effort to ask them to police what every person does with their dog, you sort of risk something when you choose to bring your dog with other dogs. I agree in principle.

My deepest sympathy to all involved!

[Whitewindhorse]

USEF just posted new rules regarding horse welfare

[Whitewindhorse]

https://www.usef.org/media/press-releases/usef-horse-welfare--safety-penalty-guidelines

[Xctrygirl]

@Whitewindhorse

https://www.usef.org/media/press-releases/usef-horse-welfare--safety-penalty-guidelines

And they’re too ambiguous at the moment. Not to mention that they would likely (For a lot of good reasons) be limited to things happening at the shows recognized by the USEF.

Em

[vineyridge]

FEI General Rules Article 142

Article 142

• Abuse of Horses

1. No person may abuse a Horse during an Event or at any other time. “Abuse” means an action or omission which causes or is likely to cause pain or unnecessary discomfort to a Horse, including, but not limited to:

(i)
To whip or beat a Horse excessively;

(ii)
To subject a Horse to any kind of electric shock device;

(iii)
To use spurs excessively or persistently;

(iv)
To jab the Horse in the mouth with the bit or any other device;

(v)
To compete using an exhausted, lame or injured Horse;

(vi)
To “rap” a Horse.

(vii)
To abnormally sensitise or desensitise any part of a Horse;

(viii)
To leave a Horse without adequate food, drink or exercise;

(ix)
To use any device or equipment which causes excessive pain to the Horse upon knocking down an obstacle.

Any person witnessing an Abuse must report it in the form of a Protest (Article 163) without delay. If an Abuse is witnessed during or in direct connection with an Event, it should be reported as a Protest (Article 163) to an Official. If the Abuse is witnessed at any other time it should be reported as a Protest (Article 163) to the Secretary General for referral to the FEI Tribunal.

[Jexa]

@WB Mom

After hearing about the dog situation, perhaps all events should require proof of vaccination for all dogs brought to an event. If a dog contracted something at an event due to unvaccinated dogs being there is it possible the event could be held liable?

I was wondering about that as well. Loose, obnoxious dogs annoy me as it is, but I would be livid about unvaccinated dogs running loose. I almost lost my childhood dog the first week we got him because he had contracted kennel cough in the shelter. Not to mention, not having an UTD rabies vaccination as administered by a vet is illegal in Texas (and most other states I would assume): http://www.dshs.texas.gov/idcu/disease/rabies/vaccine/pets/. And that’s not even accounting for crossing state lines. Dunno if she’s just getting the bare legal minimum and skipping the rest or truly not vaccinating at all.

Requiring proof of certain vaccinations for dogs is probably more effort than most events want to go to, but surely the threat of liability from spreading disease is just one more reason on top of many for events to actually enforce leash rules. Kick them out on the spot, or don’t allow them back, or at least don’t allow them to bring dogs again, but do SOMETHING.

[Xctrygirl]

@vineyridge

FEI Article 142

Viney let’s not mix apples and tomatoes. They may look alike but they’re not.

USEF’s new policy likely doesn’t reach beyond show grounds. FEI’s does but it requires a member in good standing to report any such abuses.

You could ask @stormy17 if any known FEI protests have been lodged or not.

Emily

[runNjump86]

@offtracked

Actually, ‘money’ is not the whole story. Yes, EDH may bring a lot of business to certain unrecognized events and schooling days, but she is not the big-entry trainer at recognized Area V events, by a long shot.

The thing is, an organizer or official is only dealing with the event on that weekend. They aren’t officiating all of this that is being discussed - this thread, all the rumors and accusations on social media, all the letters the organizers don’t even know about, what may have happened back at the home barn, etc. & so on. It’s more a thing of, on one day at the venue, loose dogs & snotty attitude. It’s annoying, even infuriating, but it’s temporary and is it really worth pulling someone’s entries over?

I’ve spoken with an organizer or two - not about EDH per say, but funny how EDH tends to come up because something just happened with her - who say they are trying to be the bigger person and not come totally unglued over loose dogs on the day-before course walk (especially since a number of people let their dogs loose on their course walk, but their dogs aren’t running around harassing other people and dogs). Or something else that is not the biggest event problem.

And if EDH’s group leaves early in a huff because EDH was chucked out, well, then her students lose the chance to see more of how things are done, and hopefully get more of a clue.

And if it is USEA recognized, I am not sure who has that decision to refuse or pull one competitor’s entry. Is it the TD, the GJ? I don’t know. Those officials are usually from out of town. They may give someone a talking-to, but I doubt they are likely to pull entries over loose dogs. And EDH can present herself very well when she wants to.

I get this, I really do. However, most events use the same organizer for every show, and EDH seems to have a record a mile long that follows her to these shows. This wouldn’t be a case of pulling her entry because of a loose dog a time or two. No, this would be pulling her entry because she has consistently shown up and created problems over and over again, not just limited to the dogs, which infringes on the other competitors and puts unnecessary stress on event officials.

Someone has to stand up to her. Perhaps a couple pulled entries for “Past inexcusable actions” would be just the kick needed for others to do the same.

ETA - I’m not sure who has the final say on the entry being pulled but I’m fairly certain it is the organizer…

[Whitewindhorse]

the new USEF policy does not state that the abuse has to occur at a show

[Rockfish]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Wow… cyberstalking 101. A devoted client of the barn I left.

Pot meet kettle… Thanks for proving my point the bullies are the first to play victim and point the finger. LEAVE US ALONE. Is your life really that small?! You have been blocked and banned from our Facebook for a reason, so you have to hijack a thread here?

Seriously, go ride a horse.

[OverandOnward]

Reporting to the FEI is interesting, but … here’s what comes to mind. I don’t know the FEI rules but my guess is that these two key elements at least are required -

1. Evidence gathered and documented on each case, including eyewitnesses ready to come forward,
2. Done by someone who has the standing to report to the FEI, which I assume is an FEI rider and/or member.

I have a feeling both of those things are absent for the things reported in this thread. Are there any FEI riders other than EDH in her barn? Maybe one or more of the working students? Are these qualified insiders prepared to be aware and alert for future incidents, and do some specific evidence documentation if they occur?

If these abuses are still a risk of occurring in the future, then it would seem that it’s going to take some organization and education to follow up on them. Through the FEI or through local animal welfare authorities.

Maybe the thing to do, rather than targeting one barn in what can easily look like a witch-hunt, is to instead encourage a culture generally of barn workers being aware of what is abuse, and what to do if they witness it. It seems that, in the horse industry, barn workers often know much more than they are prepared to speak up about. Can get that just by reading COTH threads. But maybe it would help if they need more knowledge and a more supportive culture in the horse community.

[trubandloki]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Wow… cyberstalking 101. A devoted client of the barn I left.

@Rockfish

Pot meet kettle… Thanks for proving my point the bullies are the first to play victim and point the finger. LEAVE US ALONE. Is your life really that small?! You have been blocked and banned from our Facebook for a reason, so you have to hijack a thread here?

Seriously, go ride a horse.

Um. Call me silly but you two are only making people try to figure out what barn is being talked about. The post that listed barn issues read like so many posts on this forum. Certainly did not wave any flags. But then one of you had to decide it was about your barn and now the back and forth…

Start your own thread so you do not get this thread closed, please.

[SendenHorse]

@Xctrygirl

And they’re too ambiguous at the moment. Not to mention that they would likely (For a lot of good reasons) be limited to things happening at the shows recognized by the USEF.

Em

yes, I agree. As much as I have my own list of people I’d love to complain against, you can’t expect USEF to police barns. I think this matters as it would be good to continue with the local authorities to get real change, EDH needs to go!

A common thread that binds all of the Federation’s breeds and disciplines is a dedication and commitment to the health, welfare, and safety of the horse. US Equestrian is committed to ensuring the welfare of our horses and providing a safe and fair competition environment to all of our members and their equine partners. To do this, US Equestrian has created rules to govern the actions of our members and protect both horses and humans, allowing them to experience the joy of horse sports.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

Several recent posts have touched on things I have been thinking about with respect to this thread and the real life situation behind it. The allegations against EDH don’t all fall within the “jurisdiction” of a single governing body or enforcement agency, and I really can’t see how it could ever be practical for the national equestrian governing bodies to be the “police” for what happens in individual trainers’ barns.

However, the USEA ICP certification does seem like it should be something that can be revoked as well as earned. I can’t imagine that revoking a certification would be something the USEA would do lightly, but I sure hope they are looking into and monitoring this particular instructor to the best of their ability.

Regarding Pony Club, don’t know if there is any precedent for saying someone who came up through the system could no longer wear their pin. However, I have to think they could certainly choose to leave her off lists of Pony Club grads competing at 4* events that get shared on social media and the like.

Maybe a topic for a different thread, but I keep thinking that something like ‘Rate My Horse Pro’ might be the best long term solution for problems like this in the industry. I went to the site, and it appears the ratings feature is disabled but ‘returning soon’. I realize it’s a small horse world and there are indeed always at least two sides to every story, but if ‘Rate My Professor’ can work, why not ‘Rate My Horse Pro’?

[vxf111]

@trubandloki

Um. Call me silly but you two are only making people try to figure out what barn is being talked about. The post that listed barn issues read like so many posts on this forum. Certainly did not wave any flags. But then one of you had to decide it was about your barn and now the back and forth…

Start your own thread so you do not get this thread closed, please.

I agree

Nothing that has been posted by either VA horse mom or rockfish makes it possible to figure out what barn/trainer they’re talking about. So… I’d let it go unless you want people to figure it out.

[anon6923113]

@trubandloki

Um. Call me silly but you two are only making people try to figure out what barn is being talked about. The post that listed barn issues read like so many posts on this forum. Certainly did not wave any flags. But then one of you had to decide it was about your barn and now the back and forth…

Start your own thread so you do not get this thread closed, please.

Got it. I deleted my posts… It’s not my intent to get this thread closed or off track.

My point was simply that leaving a barn or trainer when there are serious problems, and then speaking up about your experience isn’t easy. It’s often a total mess. It’s easier to just shut up and move on. But when you genuinely believe animal welfare or safety of kids learning to ride is an issue… Erring on the side of speaking up is probably the right thing to do.