Anyone who is a USEF member and has ridden in a 1* would be an FEI athlete. I do agree that a well prepared protest of a current “abuse” situation would be needed before submitting it to the FEI. And it would have to be fairly egregious and more likely to be taken seriously if it fell within one of the explicit grounds. But if a horse is stalled for a lengthy time, and its stall is not cleaned, I would personally consider that one of the non-specified grounds.
Still waiting to hear from XYZ who was responsible for the upkeep of EDH’s barn of personal horses during the episode she referred to. It appears from the timeline that EDH was out of state in Colorado when those pictures were taken. Was no one assigned to the barn, not even the working students?
@Just the facts please all of the working students and assistant trainers/managers are responsible for all the horse care. That includes bedding the stalls appropriately and providing hay/feed/water, etc.
FEI can’t search a competitor’s personal property, though. And I would hope they would consider more evidence than videos or photos, which can be doctored, edited, or used out of context.
I’m not trying to be argumentative; I just literally don’t see how FEI (or any other equestrian organization) can take action against allegations like these without law enforcement doing so first. Even with protests from members, which they may or may not have already received, they are limited in their capacity to assess a situation on a private farm.
I agree, these are big obstacles to an investigation.
Has the FEI ever done an investigation physically on a farm, on private property? Maybe in Europe?
And what are they investigating, exactly, and how? If they were allowed on the property and this is a general welfare check, and the stalls are dirty, what’s that worth? Stable management may or may not be one part of the issue, but it isn’t really the entire situation that has been presented in this thread, or the most serious issue. The biggest run-screaming issue that I’ve read, IMO, were the descriptions of the refusal to bring in a vet as appropriate and insistence on doing inappropriate in-house ‘vet’ treatment instead. Unless the FEI happens to drive up just as a horse is reaching a critical moment in a colic or lameness, I don’t see how that can even be investigated on an after-the-fact basis unless someone was actively gathering evidence during the crisis. Which Stormy has done to some degree for her horses. Plus, it will need more than one eyewitness coming forward with coherent stories that agree.
A basketful of issues have been discussed in this thread - horse care; vet care (or lack thereof); dogs; possibly endangering students and workers; behavior at shows … etc. & so on. I honestly don’t know how the FEI would choose what and how to investigate, and what the charge against the competitor would be. To try to do even part of it would be complex, take a long time and likely be quite expensive for the cost of qualified investigators, travel, etc. & so on.
And EDH would have considerable ability to raise disputes and and questions throughout the process. Very probably any business owner and/or property owner could bar such an investigation from their premises.
It’s one thing to accuse, but proof is a whole other ballgame.
What the USEF and FEI are best able to investigate and act on are things that happen on a show grounds with show officials on hand. That’s a significantly different environment from someone’s private property and daily business. The major problems described in this thread seem to be happening at home, with only relatively small stuff occurring on show and outside schooling grounds.
Not trying to be argumentative either, but getting law enforcement involved is likely to be very challenging too. There are examples everywhere of egregious neglect cases involving starved horses and multiple reports to law enforcement. Even in those cases, there is a VERY high burden of proof, and a pretty long slow process before law enforcement does get involved. Getting them to spend time and resources investigating a competition barn where many horses are going to be clearly VERY well cared for? My guess is that will be tough. The improper disposal of the deceased horse might be a factor that gets them involved faster… But I think there are still a number of neglect cases which involved multiple reported deceased horses on the property (Peaceable Farm comes to mind) and it was still a long and challenging process to get authorities involved. Really sad… but just the reality.
I can appreciate legal due process concerns on the side of governing bodies of sport before weighing in with sanctions as well. And absolutely investigating conditions on a private farm would be challenging legally speaking…
So situations like this end up getting hashed out on social media. Speaking of that, what is the purpose and status of the “Review Horse Pros” section of Rate My Horse Pro? Has that site just evolved into a thing you can use to run a general background check on a trainer, and follow news articles about different issues involving equine pros? That’s sort of what it looks like… Almost like if there isn’t a definite legal case against a trainer or sanction from a governing body, there is no published info on that site.
@Virginia Horse Mom Oh, I totally agree that getting law enforcement involved is not easy, either. Animal welfare is a joke in much of the US.
My point is that FEI would have reason to take action if local law enforcement had a record of abusive conditions on the property. Otherwise, like you said, protests are difficult to substantiate, even with photos or videos.
Originally, you could leave ratings on Rate My Horse Pro, with a $5 membership fee. I paid and was a little disappointed when I saw how few pros actually had any feedback. Some time later, they revamped their site, removed the membership fee, and “temporarily” disabled the ratings system. However, it’s been months (years?) and they still haven’t brought ratings back. So as you said, it’s basically just background checks and news now.
Just the facts:You wont get an logical answer on here if it doesn’t fit the narrative of EDH being a animal hurting negligent egotistical Trainer.
Most people in this thread are not interested in timelines or evidence based facts.
Heck some people on here are attributing all 3 of stormy17’s horses that have tragically died to EDHs facility, when 2 of them died at another facility months later by running into each other.
Posters continue to ask why numerous governing bodies, associations and even law enforcement continue to “do nothing” even after being contacted and alerted. They chalk it up to the powers that be “having their head in the sand” when they fail to see that the simplest answer is that the claims broadcast on here have no evidence behind them.
Stormy17 herself told us that Animal control was out to investigate as recently as least week yet nothing has came of this. So either: 1 EDH is a mastermind at covering up the ongoing and chronic abuses all levied on here. 2 There is a mass conspiracy involving the USEA IPC USPC local law enforcement and EDH. Or 3 there is no evidence.
I have been watching this drama of a thread since the beginning and cant believe the amount of bandwagon-ing and mob mentality displayed on here. I have even followed the associated FB pages (Stormy17s and others posting on that page) and its even worst there!
One comment caught me in particular from one of those FB pages (I wont include the sn of the poster): “this makes me so sad and mad all at once. I have been speechless since I read the original post. It makes me wish I had something that happened to me personally so I could speak to personal experience. Unfortunately all I have is third part experiences and my outrage that it’s been allowed to contine”
(bold emphasis is mine)
I cant help but wonder if that mentality is prevalent not only in this thread but in all of the dramas I have seen unfold at the many barns I have been at.
I am all for whistle blowers and the community in general being more vigilante against abuses against animals , people and power. However what I’ve seen presented in this thread over the past 9 months seems more like mob mentality and baseless accusations that have been reported and investigated and have turned up nothing. IF that is true it makes real whistle blowers and victims harder to hear and hurts our community over all.
I will continue to watch and be dumbfounded.
Is this the Ainsley who used to be the barn manager? What is your take on the dirty stalls? If the working students and assistant trainers are in fact given the responsibility to clean the stalls, then why would the working student XYZ bring up an accusation of neglect regarding stall conditions? I mean, wouldnt that make XYZ a guilty party? I found her post a little confusing in that matter. It sounded like it was her first time in that barn, yet she said she was there for 6 months. Just trying to get the facts straight. Something doesnt add up.
I just saw and love the discussion by Texarkana, over and onward etc. This is a huge issue, how are these issues dealt with and solved? Is social media such as these forums and FB the right place to air such grievances and claims?
If so where is and should there be due process? Or does the person that is able to rally the most likes and or reach the most views come out on top?
These types of threads and social media posts can have real world consequences ie: animals and people continuing to be abused or the loss of Jobs etc. Justice ruled out on and by social media seems to be getting more prevalent but so does the instances where social media gets it wrong and injustice prevails.
like “Just the Facts” stated it seams to me that something doesn’t add up here. I have seen a lot of contradiction and one sidedness in this thread and would love to find the truth and see justice prevail.
@Just the facts please I’m not sure why Xyz would comment on the stall being horrible, because that in fact points to the barn workers not doing their jobs. Not EDH… if there is one thing she is a stickler about, it’s bedding the stalls. They are all supposed to be bedded quite deeply. The stall mats are on clay ground, and have to be re-leveled 1-2ish times a year. So it’s quite easy for a pacing horse to mess up the mats, especially when they are the interlocking ones. Even worse if the horse is pacing, and knocks into the water buckets, spilling them and making a wet, soupy mess.
I don’t with absolute certainly know who Xyz is, but there is a potential for him/her to be part time, so conceivably they could have come in after a few days off and find the stall a disaster. (I don’t believe they said anything about any other stalls…) I don’t know the horse, so have no say in the matter about what it looks like/health issues it may have come with. If it’s one of the newest ones, a few of them did come in looking pretty rough (from pics I’ve seen) so it’s not unlikely it has issues that need to be worked on, but I personally can’t comment about that.
If I am not mistaken didn’t the investigators find the dead horse in the pasture that had been there for months and didn’t Ellen receive a citation. And isn’t it the barn owners responsibility to supervise barn workers and make sure they are doing their job?
Photos/mentions of dirty stalls do not point to barn workers not doing their jobs if those barn workers are not paid. It isn’t volunteer work. It is in fact Ellen’s fault that the stalls are a mess as she refuses to hire anyone to clean and/or manage the barn and instead plays on guilt and intimidation, in terms of her working students. You can only do so much to a person before they give up or get burnt out. There is no shortage of knowledgable people capable of maintaining and managing a barn. It’s a matter of Ellen being cheap.
The newest horses, although I have no photos of proof, looked fine upon arrival. Based on Ellen’s statement pertaining to the fact that she’d euthanize an animal before she’d pay to have it treated only helps to suggest, if not prove, that the horses were at least in visibly-decent condition when they arrived at RHEC.
@WhitewindhorseI saw posts on stormy17s FB page stating to the effect that there was nothing found as to much time had passed and encouraging people to make sure they document everything in the future so that evidence is preserved.
If you have a source or proof otherwise can you please post so that we can have the facts?
@Texarkana , thanks for clarification on that site. It makes me wonder if they are concerned about legal ramifications of having a forum where people can go and post reviews of pros. Even when people strictly adhere to only giving firsthand accounts of their experiences with a given pro… My guess is that will get messy FAST and lawsuits threatened.
It seems legal repercussions every which way have hamstrung the industry from policing itself. Even with multiple layers of governing bodies for sport… It justifiably requires a steep burden of proof to ban someone from participating in competition, and thus wreck their business.
At the end of my day, word of mouth is pretty much the primary way various equestrian communities police themselves. All businesses have to figure out social media and marketing these days. It’s pretty much word of mouth on steroids.
XYZ, thank you for the clarification regarding your status as a part time working student. Now your comment makes a little more sense to me. Although I do not agree with the statement of not holding those responsible who were actually supposed to be cleaning the stall while EDH is out of town (working students are by definition not paid a salary so it hardly seems fair to whine about it), the best remedy would indeed be to hire an actual barn manager and not rely on disgruntled students. And I commend you for stepping up and working so hard to rectify the situation the best you could.
