It means nobody is fooled when a bunch of “new members” suddenly appear on COTH, all on the same day, defending someone who is known to be watching social media 
especially when those new posters all seem to want to deflect away from the most significant issues [edit] and instead talk about whose job it was to muck stalls on a particular day.
23 Likes
Vxf111, while it is true I did just register yesterday, I have actually been following the thread nearly from the beginning. I dont recall defending anyone, I merely asked who actually was responsible for cleaning the stalls while EDH was out of state during the referenced time frame. There have been several times I wanted to comment or ask a question, so I don’t know why it took me so long to actually participate. It just seems to me that no one was asking the same questions that popped in my mind, but rather there existed a mob mentality of accepting whatever the group accepts. I am wise enough to know there are two sides to every story and that each side has a little bit of the truth and a whole lot of bias. I have no personal investment in this story, but I hate to see some of the “mean girl” nature of this thread. In fact, your comment comes across as very bullyish but it means nothing to me. Perhaps my question inspired others to express themselves as well, and hopefully they will not allow themselves to be too intimidated to continue to do so.
1 Like
To clear the air on this point, the 2 horses you are referring to died at my facility in the most horrific pasture accident I have ever seen. As you stated they collided head first, one dying instantly with a fractured skull and the other breaking his neck and being humanely euthanized by a vet.
I’d have to go back and double check, but I’m about 99% certain I corrected anyone who mistakenly thought they died at Ellen’s facility. Also, if you’ll notice, Stormy has not “created drama” in any sense regarding their deaths. You’d think if she was just out for attention this would be a prime opportunity for her… But she hasn’t. She as much as anyone else knows that accidents happen with horses, sometimes devastating ones.
If you’re looking for a conspiracy, it has to be one of monumental proportion to get over 60 people to come forward about one horse trainer, each with their own bad experience. That is a lot of people in a relatively small area to be “jealous and spreading lies” about one 4* rider…
21 Likes
The “house Guest” comments illustrate my point. How is one to get to the facts of a situation and research a trainer or facility when questions are met with snarky comments on posters account histories? This does nothing to further discussion or provide evidence one way or the other to the competency of the business discussed.
The point of this thread I thought was to serve as a warning to riders new to the area. If one of those riders came across this thread and had questions about the events or claims discussed and was met with comments providing no answers and veiled accusation of collision with the trainer discussed what are they to think?
To me it mirrors all the cattiness and barn drama of petty barn politics that most of us have unfortunately experienced at some points in our lives.
With out evidence or any contrary proof I am inclined to chalk it up to exactly that, and that would be a shame if the claims are true.
1 Like
Yeah…no. Many working students are paid a small salary on top of lessons/board to cover the cost of basic expenses like groceries. If the WS contract they agreed to stipulated a stipend and that compensation was not paid, it hardly seems fair to expect the WS to work for free.
8 Likes
flaxenfilly23 I am sorry that horrible event occurred and appreciate you clarifying. Although my point still stands, looking back through this thread through December and people still don’t have a clear picture of everything going on because all of the name calling snarky comments accusations and one-sidedness. This is exactly of why I am leary of social media and online reviews, it gets ugly fast and is hard to see which side is right.
You have “created drama” and “jealous and spreading lies” in quotes in a post about my post, I have also never accused anyone on here of a conspiracy or accused Stormy17 of doing any of those things or for seeking attention and am not sure how they pertain to me or my post?
I would still like to know if there was a citation issued to EDH after the local law enforcement visited her facility last week? That would be a good thing to included in a review of any trainer I would think.
I have zero knowledge about any citations or lack thereof regarding Ellen. Those quotes were in reference to Ellen’s personal comments about the people speaking out against her, not necessarily directed towards you personally.
I really couldn’t care less if Ellen or any of her screen names/cronies are offended by being called out for creating obvious houseguest style accounts. If that’s bullying in your world, get out more
10 Likes
Good attempt at further deflection from the most serious accusations. Nice try!
2 Likes
Agreed. It’s typical of these kinds of threads to see the appearances of houseguests accompanied with words such as “bully”, “mean”, “drama”, and “one-sided”. It’s interesting to me that all this started once those pictures of a dead, rotting horse popped up on this thread. Perhaps its a vain attempt to save face?
13 Likes
Regarding Rate My Horse PRO - they DO want to bring the ratings back. About a year ago they had to switch hosts due to high website traffic, which involved a complete re-design. Unfortunately, the ratings category is very technology heavy, and the design is proving to be extremely expensive. The site offers a free service to the public - so doesnt generate a lot of income from advertisers. The goal is to have the ratings and reviews be free - as to promote use. For some reason the $5 identity verification fee was really discouraging to users. Youll be able to verify through Paypal in the future. They will offer a Pro account as well, and a percentage of proceeds will go towards benefitting horses in need, if all goes to plan. For now, it is a news site. For the record, all of the expenses, time and effort put into the investigations are free to the victims. Theyre never asked for money. It is literally a service to the public for the welfare of our horses. And no, unfortunately they can not report anything classified as heresy - hence, court filings and legal action required - OR extremely verifiable evidence from first person sources. Otherwise it is considered libel. And yes, lawsuit threats abound but to their credit, they do not back down.
Believe me, I am dying for the day the reviews are back running. I hope everyone involved here takes the time to leave one.
8 Likes
pictureonemore and vxf111 your continued attacks on posters because of their account history is the deflection, cant you see that? Can you offer any thing of substance to this conversation or just conspiracy theories about anyone not jumping immediately on the band wagon.
Am I mistaken or is the"dead, rotting horse" not the most serious accusation? That is what i am asking for evidence of a citation. No deflection here. My original post was in regard to behavior on social media just like you have exhibited through out this thread. It relay makes it hard to take all of this as credible as an outsider on the other side of the country with no stakes in this particular area. That is also a problem and makes it difficult for riders to find good info out there about potential trainers.
1 Like
Good to know. This thread is a good example of why some sort of objectively moderated pro rating site is sorely needed in the industry.
4 Likes
People… in this day and age there is only one way to catch a criminal… FILM IT.
Any time you see a horse abuse, start filming. Any time you see neglect, start filming. Ellen tantrums? Film the piss out of it. Dogs running at large, abusive riding, horse down in indoor? Film and pictures.
As angry as it makes me to hear Ellen deny vet care to that poor horse and kitten, it also makes me sad to see people allowing a vet not to be called. You need to be that animal’s bulwark and argue that a vet needs to come out now or you will do something about it. Don’t just accept no for an answer in a serious event like the horse that fractured his skull - look the abuser in the eye and tell them that a vet is not optional. Next time an animal is suffering, call the vet - that way there is HARD evidence that Ellen refused/denied an animal vet care knowingly, which is an enforceable form of neglect and abuse. How much is a farm call? I would gladly pay $100 farm call to have a vet out at the very least to witness the neglect/abuse in question.
Next time Ellen says she isnt involving the vet, tell her she is or you are calling them and animal control for them. You can explain to both parties the situation, which will provide a transcript that the events did happen and you were a witness to it. There are certain legalities about calling a vet for someone elses horse but depending on the severity and offense it might be an option. I did it once with a cat. Don’t regret it one bit.
Once I had a rough boarder that had a horse that was clearly foundered. I told her she needed to call the vet or I would for her. She refused, I told her if she didn’t I would pay to have MY vet come out on farm call and watch the horse - which would then be a nonbiased witness who could provide testament to Animal Control that willful neglect was happening. It was a short conversation after that. She was asked to leave once the mare could comfortably trailer.
These animals are helpless – humans are not. Keep those phones handy and ready.
33 Likes
Geez, I’ve barely followed this thread yet it is clear to me that “dead, rotting horse” is NOT the most serious accusation.
11 Likes
Logiclurker… I have to play devil’s advocate on your continued comments about social media being unfair.
Trainers and barns and breeders are all too happy to maintain robust social media presences on platforms like Facebook… Where they can delete any negative or marginal reviews posted about their business, and load up their pages with 5 star reviews from shills.
But when an ex client gets on a platform that falls outside of their control and speaks up about a negative experience they had firsthand… And others who also had bad experiences notice and share theirs… All of a sudden it’s labeled a “social media problem.” An unfair mob.
Plenty of people leave barns and trainers under less than ideal circumstances, and never speak up on social media or in the forums about it. Plenty of good barns and trainers have one or two former clients who were real nightmares. But when it comes to situations where one barn or trainer consistently loses clients, over the course of years, and multiple folks have really unpleasant stories and impressions of the barn or trainer… I don’t see social media as the primary problem in those situations.
Sure… This forum and others can get out of control. But honestly… There are some ridiculously shady people in the horse industry who call themselves “professional.”
26 Likes
There is a 4th option. And the 4th option is that this thread and the corresponding posts on Stormy Daniel’s public Facebook page together paint a picture of a FEI 4* event rider, horse trainer, instructor, coach who has:
- made numerous questionable decisions about horse management and vet care (or conscious lack thereof)
- been asked to leave or thrown out of multiple facilities
- built her seemingly rather large operation primarily on the backs of working students
- been anecdotally accused of having been abusive to horses, people, and cats
- let her dogs run amuck at events
- overfaced riders resulting in injury,
- caused problems at multiple events and Pony Club rallies
- been rung out of the dressage arena at least two times for riding lame horses in rated events
I could go back through the thread and find some more things to add to the list, but I think that’s enough to make my point.
As far as a social media mob mentality - I won’t deny that I definitely get that vibe from some of the posts on both this thread and FB. But a mass conspiracy theory won’t work going the other way either - where there’s smoke, there’s fire, and this woman has generated enough smoke to cover the state of Texas. Some of the reported incidents may be exaggerated or completely untrue, but when there are so many reports and so many incidents and so much variety in what is reported, it’s completely illogical to me that it could possibly all be made up.
34 Likes
I don’t feed trolls or engage alters. Anonymous lurkers and houseguests… reveal who you are (like Stormy and many of the brave people on this thread) if you’re not Ellen under a pseudonym (or one of her current clients). If you’re just some dsinterested third party, why the alter screen name? It’s pretty obvious from your not-so-subtle posts that you’re not a disinterested third party… but if you are, what do you have to hide? The attempts to pretend you aren’t close to the situation are so flimsy they’re easy to see through. Stormy and others had the guts to reveal themselves. Ellen, current Ellen clients, if you want to respond do it under your own name and quit playing games.
11 Likes
For curiosity’s sake, and since it would be relevant to an FEI complaint, I’d be interested in knowing how many times EDH has attempted to compete a lame horse. I recall that she was spun in the first inspection or rung out in dressage at the Rolex when she married. The OP has said that she was rung out of a dressage competition in Florida for lameness, and it wouldn’t matter whether it was FEI or not. One poster has said that she was told to “ride through lameness”. Does anyone have knowledge of other competitions where EDH either was spun or rung out for lameness? If so, one might be able to prove a pattern, and there should be records somewhere of those shows.
1 Like
These are the ones that I have personal knowledge of but have heard rumors of instances before I met EDH as well.
Spun at Rolex 2014 her horse was lame from a heel grab at Red Hills and despite not being able to ride/adequately prepare him weeks before, she elected to haul him all the way to KY and present him. She was also held again this year.
Rung out in dressage on my horse Buzz at Ocala in 2016
Rung out in dressage at the 3* at Red Hills 2017 Her horse was obviously lame but she attempted to run him in the Adv Horse Trial the next day. The officials declined her request which resulted in a pretty nasty tantrum. No, I was not there but she posted the video and a rant on her FB. And I heard from several witnesses about her “choice of language” when she didn’t get her way as did the person she was taking lessons from here in TX. He has declined to coach her since because it was beginning to sully his reputation.
She was most recently held at the 1* at Texas Rose in May 2017. She did pass when she represented but the horse had some pretty ugly wounds. I’m sure these can be seen in videos/photos from the show if anyone wants to look.
8 Likes
