You know the things that really stick for me are these:
Sent multiple riders who had sustained a fall and likely concussion to DRIVE THEMSELVES to the hospital. As a ‘veteran’ of many concussions myself I cannot think of how horrible this is and what an enormous risk it was to the injured parties. Not to mention that how are you teaching people that repeated concussions to your students is a thing? I mean I get the risks and likely hood of falling on your head, but this seems like more than the typical average.
More than once took someone’s horse without permission xc schooling (Sometimes out of state) for a rider not the owner to school. This is the gobsmack one for me. I would be livid and warning everyone I knew about a trainer that did this… even if they did NOTHING else wrong. That’s just such a huge no no.
Absolutely I completely agree, inherently social media is not the problem. Unethical, mean, manipulative and abusive people are the problem.
Social Media however can be easily manipulated and amplify small the voice of small segments of communities that otherwise wouldn’t get heard. This is both its blessing and curse.
Barn owners and trainers can promote and project an unreal image of their business but riders and borders can also paint unreal pictures of those businesses. This often time means that side that is more social media savvy, can reach a larger audience, or generate more “likes” become the winner.
Its not a great system to answer serious and important questions. I have watched several barn environments be ripped apart by she said / she said arguments that escalate into much of what I have seen in this thread. If social media were a thing at the time I have no doubt that those situations would have become way worse with more innocent people and animals being hurt.
Ultimately this should should be the ICP’s issue as they are supposedly the credible governing body that endorses trainers like EDH. But that seems like a broken system as well.
IrishWillowthank you for posting the information about Rate My Horse Pro, That is exactly what we need. You also did an excellent job of laying out why its so hard to have an objective and credible online platform for ratings. Maybe if many of us went to the site and paid the $5 ID fee we could help the community out and speed their efforts along.
Thankfully most of the posters here have provided proof of their side so it is pretty easy to know which side is closest to the third side.
@Just the facts please I have two simple questions for you since you seem to know quite a bit about the whole situation and both you and I like logic and facts.
Does EDH let her dog(s) run loose at events/horse shows where there are rules about no unleashed dogs?
Who is responsible for the care of the horses? Not asking who does the work. Asking who is responsible. Who is responsible to make sure the people doing the work are doing it correctly and that the people they have left to do the work (if they are home or not) are following thru with proper care?
Where there is smoke, there’s fire. I seriously doubt that ALL of these people just have it in their mind to be mean ole bullies to poor little Ellen. :no:
‘House Guest’ is a term used commonly on COTH and other forums. The snark is because out of ALL of these accounts that point in one direction, you come in nine months later and say that they’re all crazy because there isn’t evidence or contrary proof? You know that old saying, “if you have a problem with one or two people, maybe it’s them. If you have a problem with everyone, maybe it’s you.”
I don’t know Ellen personally, which is why I’ve just been quietly watching this unfold since last year - but I do know several people who event here in DFW and have had personal experiences with her. Spoiler alert: every single one of them can’t find nice things to say. I know shit happens - hell my old derby horse dropped dead in the round pen while warming up a few years ago. I’ve seen a horse drop dead on the hot walker. They’re horses - it happens.
However, at this point, I hope this thread continues and I hope that others are inspired by Stormy to keep speaking out about the blatant abuse and, if nothing else, what horrible manners that this woman seems to have. Going off at events? Loose dogs? What a black eye to our sport. At some point, I imagine she’d have to make a choice - either move away and try to restart her reputation or change her ways. But if she thinks that everyone hates her/is out to get her/is a bully, then the problem isn’t them - it’s her. All of these people can’t be wrong.
Wow @stormy17 … That track record of attempting to compete lame horses… Yikes. Maybe a letter focusing on that issue alone to governing bodies will at least result in increased scrutiny of her and her horses at shows, and get problems identified as early as possible.
If/When they do, I hope they will change the format a bit. I went on to Rate My Horse Pro and tried to rate a farrier I was unhappy with, and went through all the little “put a dot here” things, and I don’t remember there being any place to say what exactly was wrong. Yes, he was on time, yes he was courteous, etc., but I found no place to say “He did not correct my mare’s long toes, heels starting to come in, and I know my vet is angry with him for some reason.” There was no place to say anything like that, and when I looked at my review in total, he didn’t look all that bad. So I felt the review was rather pointless, and I found no way to attempt to correct the review.
I have nothing to do with any of this situation, but I can personally vouch for this one in particular. A friend and I were stabled next to her at an event last year and her dogs were wandering around loose quite a bit. I saw one of them pee on a tack trunk, and it also pooped in my friend’s horse’s stall. Pretty freaking gross and annoying, at the very least.
My only other personal experiences with her have been sharing a warm-up with her at several shows, which is also not always the most pleasant thing. I watched her almost plow right into the butt of a BN horse/rider while on a green horse at one show, then proceed to yell at said rider (who was not doing a damn thing wrong, just walking near the rail).
I think almost everyone in this area has similar stories.
I’ve personally seen her compete an obviously lame horse at a schooling show, but the judge didn’t do anything about it. Her unleashed - and unsupervised, mind you - dogs have also run up and threatened my complete sack of mush of a dog (who was on a leash), barking and growling. I actually thought they were going to attack, as they had that stiff, steely-eyed stance.
FWIW, that would be all of them if operating under USEF rules. From GR1301: [INDENT]
6. Dogs are not permitted to be loose on competition grounds and must be held on a leash or otherwise restrained. Individuals must not lead dogs on a leash while mounted. […][/INDENT]
Much like leash laws everywhere else (and various aspects of the dress code, and way too many other things), the actual enforcement seems to be somewhat loose and based on complicated social expectations, but that’s the rule.
Would it be possible to make a petition against her coming to horse shows? Especially the local ones? Based on her horrific behavior at shows, and the number of people complaining about the unruly dogs, I think it’d be prudent to make a petition of people who will refuse to attend shows she comes to. Yes, she has a large party, but if the rest of the show drops out over her maybe it’d make organizers be more on top of her behavior.
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Ultimately this should should be the ICP’s issue as they are supposedly the credible governing body that endorses trainers like EDH. But that seems like a broken system as well.
IrishWillowthank you for posting the information about Rate My Horse Pro, That is exactly what we need. You also did an excellent job of laying out why its so hard to have an objective and credible online platform for ratings. Maybe if many of us went to the site and paid the $5 ID fee we could help the community out and speed their efforts along.
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ICP is WELL AWARE (I cannot stress how aware…) of EDH’s behavior. They refuse to do anything. Which, to me, makes the entire ICP program 100% a total joke.
And THANK YOU - Rate My Horse PRO is owned and run by wonderful people who truly care about horses. It is often a thankless and heartbreaking job. They need all the support they can get! Also - Nutrena pulled their sponsorship of the site after RMHP refused to pull the article regarding monensin in Nutrena feeds and 2 horses dying. So there is THAT as well. cough cough
I have an itsy, bitsy, teeny amount of second hand knowledge regarding this year’s situation. Her horse almost went down going into the water and was body sore after the physical exertion to stay on his feet (there are even pics). She employed more than one bodywork practitioner to get him comfortable enough for stadium. At least, that is my understanding of the situation from several sources; I hope I’m not misrepresenting any information.
Just a disclaimer: It may sound like I’m defending EDH in some of my posts— I’m not. I don’t know her from Adam. I have several friends and acquaintances who know her personally, so I’m not completely removed from the situation. But I’ve been trying to maintain an unbiased tone in my contributions to this thread.
What probably comes through in my tone is that after spending much of my youth working for “BNTs,” I’m jaded when it comes to upper level trainers. Few people have the raw talent/horsemanship/ability to make it to the upper levels by their own good graces. More often than not, the competitive spirit fuels someone’s road to the top, but also forces them to make questionable decisions to reach their goals. The narrative told on this thread of a trainer leaving a wake of bad horsemanship and business, true or untrue, is as old as competition itself.
