[QUOTE=Highflyer;8982635]
This seems like a situation that should be pursued legally, rather than via a bulletin board.[/QUOTE]
YES!!!
Reading those last six pages was quite the eye opener for me. You really can see the heart of some that hide behind a made up ID and the heart of others that come out and confirm the goodness of another.
It is so easy for us armchair owners to say ‘why i’d just pick up and leave, what was her problem?’ There may be exceptions, there always are, I’d challenge anyone here to just ‘pick and leave’ with even one horse, forget 7.
I have a friend who was very upset about the actions occurring at the barn she boarded, not just to her horse, but to others. She tried for over a month, remember, just one horse, to find a spot that had a reputable name that was not hours away. Eventually she asked me, out of desperation, if I would take her horse in, knowing I was already maxxed out. I did and she finally found a good home.
I own my own small farm and even in owning, change is not easy when dealing with multiple horses. If I had to downsize I’d run into the same issues. There is no value in questioning “Why” when the bigger point is “What can I do”. I may have thought, for a moment, the question of leaving for the OP, but was more taken in by the horrible acts done to the her, her horses, and those that were at that barn.
That is the tragedy.
Sadly, there will always be bad people, trainers, barn owners, professionals and I have no issue when someone puts honest, evidenced based proof of the nature of that person. It’s like we need a Yelp for the equestrian world. Many people make honest mistakes (I’ve had my share), but then own up to them and worked to change. From all that I’ve read on that FB link and here, Miss Ellen let that train go a long time ago. She does not care what people think of her as long as she continues to get business. The best way to teach this person a lesson is to ensure she cannot make money with that approach and attitude to the profession. Given the level of disgust foisted at her, she’ll never change.
On a different note, I was scrolling through the public display on Stormy’s FB page and damn girl, you got a beautiful horse, and great position over the fences. It looks like Novice or Training(?). It is great you are active in Eventing, bad experiences not withstanding, and I hope you continue in your equine endeavors. If you ever got tired of area V, Area III is a great place to live, ride, and compete. There is a fantastic Equine Center opening just across the road from me and they will be ready for horses by next summer.
As to the asshat that felt the childish need to post the profession of another without their permission…grow up. What someone does for a living has no bearing upon their passion for horses and/or how the care for them. As been clearly pointed out, someone with a so-called reputable profession can turn out to be a very ugly human. I rather doubt you feel ashamed for that would require one to actually care about another’s feelings.
5 Likes
This is the problem with forums. We have no way of proving anything. He said, she said. Who knows, doesn’t matter really to me personally who is right. But people put them out there and then it just creates more strife. JMHO.
I’d hate to be a horse for either of you with language like that. The horse does not connect schooling at a later time (even 20m after the fact!) with the disuniting incident prior. Their brains don’t work that way. Most other good professionals know that.
Schooling is for home. You have a bad day at a show, you pack your bags, go home, and work on the issue.
18 Likes
beowulf, you took the words right out of my mouth.
4 Likes
hldyrhrses[I]
Working Hunter
I’m sorry- Stormy I am sorry that you have loses.
HOWEVER- you have a list of 15!!! faults against this woman and continued to keep multiple horses with her! You need to take some responsibility for this! You knew what kind of woman she was and how she ran her barns and you continued to board with her! You’re not a victim at this point! I’m not defending her in any way. I don’t know either of you.
I understanding finding a barn for 7 horses is a huge task but if any ONE of those things happened to my horse I would not continue to board there. I would do what was in the best interest of my horses as their provider![/I]
So many things we see on net boards are so much easier said than done.
Given the OP’s situation, what exactly could you have done better? She was on waiting lists at other barns, and had even bought property and was improving the property in order to bring them all home. That’s a Big Deal.
To move horses, someone else has to say, “Yes, You can bring them here!” That wasn’t happening for the OP. Where in the world can you just move horses, without someone else’s permission and where they are welcome and cared for, and not evicted because you just hauled them to the new place even if it was to get them out of a bad place? What would happen in that case? New BO says “WTF are you bringing them here for? I don’t have stalls for them! Where am I supposted to put them?”
Then what?
So many things are so easy to say…
2 Likes
This is the same lady that had been discussed in another thread? Wow. I remember that thread and I remember posting about the same thing as beowulf. My trainer has a saying of ‘finish on a good note’, but that note does not have to be the same item that is not working. Sometimes just a quiet walk with pats is a great note to end on for the horse. It is not a reward for being bad, it is a reassurance that their part of the team.
3 Likes
How can you have a pasture that routinely floods enough for a horse to drown?
1 Like
I would think that someone who has 7 horses in full training has financial means beyond what you or I or any normal 1-2 horse owner has. And even moving horses to a safe turnout field with a shed and a round bale (while less than ideal) is better than waiting while they drown and die 
But I get that hindsight is 20/20 and we don’t know the OP and everyone’s situation is different.
But maybe let this be a wakeup call for us all… WHAT’S YOUR BACKUP PLAN? Because everyone needs one, whether they have 1 horse or 7, whether it’s ideal or not. Of course moving to another top notch eventing barn with room for all 7 horses would have been ideal… but it helps to have backup plans worked out even if they’re not ideal. I have a farmette. Any of my friends know they could stash their horses with me short-term if the sh*t hit the fan where they are now. It would be WAY less than ideal and mean, due to distance and facilities, show horses would be out of work-- but isn’t that better than show horses being starved or colicing without treatment or DYING?
We should all have some ideas for “what if,” which hopefully we never have to use. We should all know who has safe pasture board and who would squeeze in a few extra in a pinch. Just like we should all know a backup vet to call if ours is 100% unavailable or (for those of us with horses at home) a backup place to get hay if our supplier runs out unexpectedly. It would be better to have horses far away, out of the program, in a rough but safe place than to have them in a program where their daily safety is at risk.
I really do feel for the OP. And I get that everyone’s personal circumstances are different. It sounds to me like she very much accepts some personal responsibility and that’s admirable. Perhaps some good can come of the experience, both in terms of outing the (frankly horrendous-sounding) trainer and as a wake up call to all of us to think about what we’d do if everything went suddenly haywire with a boarding facility.
4 Likes
I agree VXF- I am not un-sympathetic when I say have a backup plan. I got pounded for “not understanding the OP’s situation”…?
I have friends with 4-5 horses that DO have a plan, it’s just like I directed care for my horse if i can no longer take care of him.
Don’t chide all of us for daring to speak a HINT of “non-supportiveness”. Actually that is a good lesson/reminder for all of us. I hope no one else gets in that bad situation.
I had to move to a crappy western barn, no offense to western people, but it was safe and secure.
OP opened this can of worms, not us, and we are free to comment.
Except for a few posts this thread is mostly supportive.
It is not victim shaming to call our a few things- come on here, you have to see this OP as quite something if like me, you have no earthly idea of the players and story.
You all assume that we can see you are “right”. Can you see how we have no idea what the truth is?
This is exactly like those “my custom saddle was messed up” or “My DH is a sleeze bag”…two sides.
This is why I wonder why OP needs to convince US of her validity. No, you don’t. I am so sorry for the loss, but it’s not my story. I have no way of helping anyone here.
I’ve also learned that so and so can have a horrible experience with trainer X, but they seem ok to another friend. It all depends. (This trainer seems off the deep end, yes, but still logic is needed. I will make up my own mind with FACTS).
. IMO, Stormy deserves everything coming her way, its not bad luck, it’s bad karma. This woman is evil in every definition of the word, and the only ones agreeing with her are friends of hers or others Ellen has kicked out of the barn or other crazies Ellen has dealt with in the past
Wow. Just WOW. Aren’t you just charming? You clearly have NO IDEA[ who Stormy is as a person, and the fact that you say she is evil is laughable. As for saying she deserves everything coming her way, it’s so comforting to know that there are compassionate people in this world who wouldn’t dare allude to someone deserving the death of their animals. You get a gold star!
3 Likes
pictureonemore
[IMG]http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/images/statusicon/user-online.png) Working Hunter
Join DateSep. 15, 2010LocationMiddle of NowherePosts126
[h=2][IMG]http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.png)[/h] [INDENT] . IMO, Stormy deserves everything coming her way, its not bad luck, it's bad karma. This woman is evil in every definition of the word, and the only ones agreeing with her are friends of hers or others Ellen has kicked out of the barn or other crazies Ellen has dealt with in the past
Wow. Just WOW. Aren’t you just charming? You clearly have NO IDEA[ who Stormy is as a person, and the fact that you say she is evil is laughable. As for saying she deserves everything coming her way, it’s so comforting to know that there are compassionate people in this world who wouldn’t dare allude to someone deserving the death of their animals. You get a gold star! [/INDENT]
But this is the “two sides to every strory” we are talking about. Open this box, people are going to comment. I don’t know who is telling the truth, and that is really not what my point is.
OP slung a lot of mud too, true or not, it’s out there.
I have no idea who is telling the truth.
[QUOTE=Eventing212121;8982610]
I am one of Ellen’s current boarders, and I must say, this is absolutely ridiculous and childish and petty. Everything Stormy listed is either a downright lie or a stretched version of the truth. Stormy didn’t leave previously because none of those things happened like she said they did. Ellen bent over backwards for this woman, and now she does this. IMO, Stormy deserves everything coming her way, its not bad luck, it’s bad karma. This woman is evil in every definition of the word, and the only ones agreeing with her are friends of hers or others Ellen has kicked out of the barn or other crazies Ellen has dealt with in the past. Ellen does not sugar coat anything and tells it like it is, which many people do not like. She is one of the kindest, most hardworking individuals I know. All of us that board with her are very happy with our lessons/training and care of our horses. Her working students/barn staff are amazing. I think Stormys post speaks for itself. There are definitely 2 sides to the story![/QUOTE]
Eventer212121, so just to recap from your post “the only ones agreeing with her are … others Ellen has kicked out of the barn or other crazies Ellen has dealt with in the past.”
So let me get this straight. It’s always someelse’s fault?
From what I can tell by your post it appears that this kind of controversy seems to follow Ellen. To be fair, if this kind of thing happened once, it might be them. If it happened twice, it might be a toss up. If it happens as you stated, honey, it might just be her.
Three questions for you and anyone else who wants to weigh in:
- How long have you been working with Ellen?
- How long have Ellen’s current students been with her?
- And what is the average tenure of a typical boarder or student?
2 Likes
This year in Texas we had severe floods of the 100 year flood type. Places flooded that never have before all over the state, private farms as well. Very odd stuff and the fanciest place across town may have flooded, too.
1 Like
I am chiming in on this thread as a first time poster so please bare with me because I do NOT do this stuff lightly! I have lived in NE Texas my WHOLE life and I have never lived anywhere else. I started riding English when I was 7 years old. Around here it was VERY weird! I would get called names and other parents would try to tell my parents that I was riding wrong and I needed to “cowboy up” and run barrels like their daughters. Later on I would joke that I jumped barrels instead of going around them!
We have come a long way in these 22 years! Now we have a 4* instructor just 30 minutes away! If I could go back and tell 13 year old me this I would have laughed! In this area we do NOT have the amount of trainers or instructors that are available in other parts of the country. And this makes for easy pray unfortunately. There are a couple of barns I know of in this area where trainers are abusive not just to horses but also students and they get away with it because they tell their students “I am the highest rated instructor in the area if you think you can get good training from someone with HALF my experience you are wrong” even though I think we can all agree that when you are learning to walk, trot and canter independently you do NOT need a 4* coach! In addition to this Ellen has something else in her favor sandy soil! We have this stuff called black gumbo and 98% of all the land within 30 minutes east of dallas is made up of it. Ellen is sitting on a very small patch of sand that happens to be the closest patch of sand this side of Dallas that I am aware of! Between that and the false sense of her knowledge due to being a 4* rider makes for a very eye appealing front for rockwall hills
Now for some of my personal experiences with Ellen. I was very involved in the USPC growing up that was where I received most of my training from. When Ellen moved to the area I was so excited because I was trying to go for my B and now I had an A only 45 minutes from me! I looked up to her like an idle. I begged my mother (who was VERY skeptical because of things she had heard my other trainer say) for a lesson with Ellen. I went and she told my mother that if I rode with her regularly I was SURE to pass my B. Now I had already failed my B due to a horse going lame before the end of the rating. So we knew nothing was a guarantee but Ellen kept talking it up. On our way home my mom and I talked about what I learned and we decided that Ellen was not a good fit for us. This was 6 years ago and Ellen has barn hopped all over NE Texas for this or that reason ever since with rumors flying. And I have often looked back thinking “man did I dodge a bullet!”
I have started my own beginner/lower level eventing barn and I am still highly involved with our local pony club and region. I have watched Ellen play ignorant to not knowing the rule in Pony Club about horses needing to be 5+ at rallies. She even brought a D1 on a OTTB to event rally that was under age and had raced three or four months prior. I watched in HORROR as the kid got taken off with when she was in warm-up and thrown 10’ nearly hitting a steel beam holding up the covered arena. All the while Ellen was not available to coach the kid because I was told she was on cross country with another student. At that same rally I watched as she told her students to tack up and go school cross country BEFORE the end of Rally, even though the TD and Cheif HM told them they would be eliminated if they went. She told her students not to worry about us and to do it because she needed to get back home. This ended in the team being eliminated from rally and MANY tears were shed. She then stormed off saying we were being unfair and that our region had stepped across the line, even though we all know that Pony Club follows the USEA rules and there will be no schooling until the end of the event! (remember this is a 4* rider she should know the rules) I have personally had to help one of her ex students regain confidence because she was broken down by Ellen. The part about Ellen’s dogs is also true. At every show I go to Ellen’s dogs are running around off leash or if they have a leash they are dragging it behind them.
I have watched as an outsider glad that my mother helped me see the truth so long ago. I wish with all my heart that Ellen would see what she is doing for the eventing community in NE texas because she has such a gift and just throws it around like it is a privilege. And to those from other parts of the country I hope you can see from this post that this area is lacking in quality boarding barns and instruction! And we have potential but could use some more quality instruction!
3 Likes
[QUOTE=Eventing212121;8982637]
Again, a thread started by someone who wasnt there and didn’t see what went on. 2 sides to a story. Ellen is an excellent horsewoman. I was there for that particular show, and the horse got her off on the xc (which does not happen often). The show was over, she was one of the last to go, she remounted and jumped some fences in sj warmup. The horse tried to do the exact same thing over the first fence she jumped in warm up, so she jumped him about 10 more times to confirm he was jumping confidently and quietly. She was leaving for Galway to compete directly from that show, so had she not gotten back on him, he would of sat for 10 days , getting rewarded for throwing her off. I’m sure any other good professional would have done exactly what she did.[/QUOTE]
So Eventer212121, let me get this straight. Ellen is not required to follow the rules like the rest of us when she falls off of a horse or has a bad show? So does that mean the rest of us can make up the rules to suit us as we go along too? What would that do to the safety of our sport?
The rules are in place for the safety of all horses and riders. Unlike many sports, professionals often compete alongside amateurs…adults compete among children…seasoned horses compete among greenies.
A recognized show is not a schooling opportunity. It is a competition. If your horse is not performing, it is unfair to the other competitors for you to try to work through those issues during their warm up. And it could be potentially dangerous. So if you fall off, you act accordingly - pack your things, load up your horse, go home and work on the issues before the next show.
As one of person mentioned in an earlier reply, horses don’t think as you as suggesting - please ask your trainer about how a horse’s brain works. She should be able to tell you that schooling the horse after and away from the place at which she got dumped did not teach the horse anything about what to do the next time he or she is presented with the same kind of obstable. As a professional, I’m sure she knows that, but perhaps she was caught up in the moment or maybe a little embarrassed for getting dumped. Either way, the rules are the rules.
If she feels the horse needs addditional schooling - that’s her call. No one disputes the need for additional work. But there is a time and a place. If that is the case with this horse she should consider sticking with schooling shows, clinics and cross country schooling for a while longer to let the horse develop accordingly.
Anyone who operates outside of the rules, just shows a lack of respect for the sport, the horses and the other riders IMO.
2 Likes
Wow…this is a crazy thread!
I don’t know anyone involved, but it seems undisputed that a horse died and for that I’m very sorry for your loss.
1 Like
I am sorry too. I don’t know aNY owner who has an overnight backup plan for a boarded horse. Let alone seven. Especially over training concerns and feeding. Honestly, half the things on the OPS list are items that could be worked out…and not uncommon in a pushy HJ barn.
It took me over a year to realize a former coach was an alcoholic who turned out to be on her downward spiral when I met her. I suspect far more things than I can prove, and I watched her treat ‘crazies’ badly. I blocked it out. My horse was going well. My riding was improving. Until she inevitably turned on me too. I feel no glee in the knowedge that her career in horses is over, her family estranged. She was talented.
I couldn’t pull three horses out overnight. It took a month. And while I’m not wealthy, it wasn’t a money issue. Finding a decent place to keep them was important…I didn’t think she’d actually outwardly harm them. They are fine. But they were at risk. She had access to them for that month.
You know the worst part? Once I mentioned that we’d parted ways…Plenty of people opened right up about her lifelong history of drinking. Oh the stories. I was new to the area, but some of these people were pretty well known acquaintances. They knew all about her.
I would have appreciated a heads up. I might still have braved her, but I wouldn’t have attacked them for sharing negative experiences.
2 Likes
Eventing212121 -
" IMO, Stormy deserves everything coming her way, its not bad luck, it’s bad karma. This woman is evil in every definition of the word, and the only ones agreeing with her are friends of hers or others Ellen has kicked out of the barn or other crazies Ellen has dealt with in the past."
Oh honey, honey, honey. Where to begin?
First of all, if we’re talking karma, Im fairly certain saying someone else (whom you have never even met) “deserved” their horse drowning to death is an invitation for bad karma. I sincerely hope you NEVER have to go through what Stormy has. I wouldnt wish that on my worst enemy.
I would hope, although I am not confident in this, that you are intelligent enough to stop and take a LONG hard look at all the stories. All the people speaking up. If one person doesnt like you, its them. If everyone has a problem with you, its you.
Also consider the “other crazies from the past” - are there multiple threads about them and how crazy they are? Do other people routinely have issues with them? Ill answer that for you - No.
As with boyfriends, if a trainer tells you all their “exes” are crazy, run dont walk away. If your trainer has moved from barn to barn, red flag. Honestly, if its gotten bad enough for people to start going public because theyre just sick of it - red flag. If the stories have a common, repeated theme - red flag.
I would encourage you to keep your eyes very, very wide open. Ask yourself for a moment WHY so many people are willing to speak out? I mean, for what result other than warning others? Think about how bad it must have gotten for people who do NOT normally post on forums such as this to log on here and speak up? Are they just bored and all full of personal vendettas? Even you must be bright enough to conclude thats not probable. I really and truly hope that you dont look back at all this in a few years, like so many have, and think “Gosh, I should have listened. All of those people were so right. I should have listened.”
This isnt a witch hunt. People are just done pretending.
3 Likes
[QUOTE=Eventing212121;8982637]
Again, a thread started by someone who wasnt there and didn’t see what went on. 2 sides to a story. Ellen is an excellent horsewoman. I was there for that particular show, and the horse got her off on the xc (which does not happen often). The show was over, she was one of the last to go, she remounted and jumped some fences in sj warmup. The horse tried to do the exact same thing over the first fence she jumped in warm up, so she jumped him about 10 more times to confirm he was jumping confidently and quietly. She was leaving for Galway to compete directly from that show, so had she not gotten back on him, he would of sat for 10 days , getting rewarded for throwing her off. I’m sure any other good professional would have done exactly what she did.[/QUOTE]
BUT at the same time, I had several PM conversations with others who were are the event and said she did a lot WORSE to that horse but I chose specifically to leave that out as I don’t want to fan the flames.
Sorry, your horse training logic sucks. Jumping a horse 10 times over a warm up jump teaches it nothing about dumping its rider on XC.
2 Likes
