My horrible experiences with Texas horse trainer/instructor Ellen Doughty-Hume

[Scribbler]

The thing I’m still trying to get my head around, and it is not victim-blaming, just trying to figure out how these things work socially, is:

Trainer is a barn-hopper with a bad reputation. Kicked out of five or six barns? Known for blowing up at show stewards and getting her students kicked out of shows? Seen to publicly abuse her horses? Puts her students in dangerous situations, on dangerous horses? This in a small community of riders where there are not a lot of English barns? All of this is quite possible.

But what I don’t understand, if the bad behavior has been so egregious, so public, if she has burned through presumably all the other barns in the area: why doesn’t she have a bad reputation to the extent that her business is faltering, or that everyone isn’t warning everyone else to stay away? In general, if someone has done a list of terrible things to one person, they have done the same things to most people. And horse people talk. Maybe not publicly, but they certainly talk privately.

What is the trainer offering that makes up for her bad reputation in the community? Is she so high-ranked in the sport, and giving people such a good line about how they will excel with her, that people ignore other red flags? Do her students excel? Or what?

[SendenHorse]

it does seem that the trainer’s reputation precedes her in some cases

I would put her name in the title though to directly link for those who might search her online.

[Jealoushe]

It was already stated that a lot of her students and boarders are new to the area or new to horses. Think of all the young riders whose parents are clueless but just pay the bill. They have no idea what is right wrong or normal. High level sports have drama a lot, they could assume that is just horse sport and they might not know enough about the care.

Younger riders are easier to sway about bad training etc. I have had friends ridden with a local trainer who drugs all her horses and they all think this is still totally fine to this day because when they were young and impressionable, someone they looked up to did this.

A 4* rider can have some star struck.

[Scribbler]

OK, that makes sense. So though she is a 4* rider she has a clientele of newbies, children, and folks who have recently moved to the DFT area (which is certainly a growing metropolis)? Meaning that mostly her students aren’t probably showing at that high a level? And as a full-training barn, a lot of more or less absentee owners who aren’t very hands on?

BTW, this thread does pop up when you Google this trainer’s name.

[vxf111]

Someone’s name doesn’t have to be in the title of the thread for google to return this thread for someone googling the name.

[babecakes]

Only thing that turned up for me from COTH when I searched the name is a former post about working student positions.

[HRF_Second_Chance]

Eventing212121 I’m sorry but [edit] to say such a thing about ANYONE’S horse, regardless of their affiliation with your trainer. Karma is real and it’ll come back to you honey. And I hope it comes back in spades. We’re supposed to all be in this sport because we love horses so you better check yourself.

Wildsequoia, thank you for chiming in. I had heard about the Pony Club incident and I never heard the outcome. One of the rumors was that she was nixed from ever returning but I don’t know that to be a fact. Either way, it’s good to hear the first hand account.

[IrishWillow]

Scribbler:

“OK, that makes sense. So though she is a 4* rider she has a clientele of newbies, children, and folks who have recently moved to the DFT area (which is certainly a growing metropolis)? Meaning that mostly her students aren’t probably showing at that high a level? And as a full-training barn, a lot of more or less absentee owners who aren’t very hands on?”

For the most part, yes. Her clientele is mostly new to the sport, the area, or horses in general. Plus, no one speaks up. So no way for these people to know. She has no ratings on Rate My Horse PRO or RipOff Report.

[Vani]

Ellen saying her dogs are on a “verbal leash” made me laugh. At one show, her dog Jesse peed on my mother while he was running around off his leash. Instead of apologizing like a normal person, Ellen told my mom that she should have “stopped her dog before he got a chance to get close to her.” You know what would have stopped the dog from getting close?? A leash.

[rugbygirl]

Just as a note, I have experience trying to ‘do my homework’ on trainers with hyphenated or dual last names.

I don’t think they do it to be cagey, but it makes searching more difficult. Likewise trainers that use a maiden or other name in their registered business and go by a different name socially. You need to search all the permutations.

It’s not an unsolvable problem, but even getting a complete show record is harder with a more complicated last name.

Another former trainer was entered in the national database under five separate competitor names for a while. You’re never really sure you’ve gotten everything.

This is something that people who’ve ‘been around’ don’t even think about…but most of the reputation and stories around trainers aren’t exactly branded into their foreheads. No, I didn’t know that my former trained had gone by a totally different name until the last high drama. Oddly enough, it didn’t cone up when I spoke to her. It was long enough ago that it wasn’t current goship.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=rugbygirl;8982924]
Just as a note, I have experience trying to ‘do my homework’ on trainers with hyphenated or dual last names.

I don’t think they do it to be cagey, but it makes searching more difficult. Likewise trainers that use a maiden or other name in their registered business and go by a different name socially. You need to search all the permutations.

It’s not an unsolvable problem, but even getting a complete show record is harder with a more complicated last name.

Another former trainer was entered in the national database under five separate competitor names for a while. You’re never really sure you’ve gotten everything.

This is something that people who’ve ‘been around’ don’t even think about…but most of the reputation and stories around trainers aren’t exactly branded into their foreheads. No, I didn’t know that my former trained had gone by a totally different name until the last high drama. Oddly enough, it didn’t cone up when I spoke to her. It was long enough ago that it wasn’t current goship.[/QUOTE]

The opposite end of the spectrum is worse. Good luck finding anything meaningful on “Susan Smith.” You’ll get a trillion hits but you’ll never be able to figure out which one is her.

There’s a lot of information “out there” but that doesn’t always mean it’s easy to find.

[rugbygirl]

Yes. That’s why it’s particularly hurtful to suggest that someone really should have known, especially when their horses have been hurt or killed.

[wildsequoia]

you are correct. Her barn is one of very few this side of dallas to offer lesson horses. Even though I would not call them appropriate lesson horses most are OTTB’s in retraining to sell. When you drive by on the busy high way and look at the barn it has a huge beautiful home and a gate that is to die for! This is the private drive for the home and you go in the back way to the farm but Ellen has a sign out front so you see the gate which is well known in this area for its beauty and then see Ellen’s banner and well you are hooked! To a none horse person wanting their kids to have lessons without buying a horse this looks like horse heaven! When she comes to schooling shows she brings a whole flock of students mostly newbies which in a small eventing community means a lot of money to show organizers (myself included). She walks around thinking she can run the show since she has a huge percentage of the competitors. When she is like this then people take notice and politics step up. Parents want their kids to get noticed and Ellen is going to do that. The rules are there for a reason and IMHO NEED to be followed by everyone! I also saw the post above about the “star struck” and yes this is so true! I listen to people talk about Ellen like she is a movie star. Julie Norman also another 4* eventer in our region (three hours from here but still) is what everyone needs to look at and see as the star of area V!

[IrishWillow]

Angela and Sydney Elliott are also Area V and both 4* / Rolex riders too.

[FLeventer]

Thank you for posting this Stormy. Too many unsavory stories about Ellen. Thank you for having the guts to speak out.

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=Scribbler;8982870]

But what I don’t understand, if the bad behavior has been so egregious, so public, if she has burned through presumably all the other barns in the area: why doesn’t she have a bad reputation to the extent that her business is faltering, or that everyone isn’t warning everyone else to stay away? In general, if someone has done a list of terrible things to one person, they have done the same things to most people. And horse people talk. Maybe not publicly, but they certainly talk privately.

What is the trainer offering that makes up for her bad reputation in the community? Is she so high-ranked in the sport, and giving people such a good line about how they will excel with her, that people ignore other red flags? Do her students excel? Or what?[/QUOTE]

Honest question- do you have any experience whatsoever with upper level trainers of any discipline? Because this type of situation is incredibly common in the horse world.

It just may not be readily apparent by googling alone.

[DoubleTwistedWire]

Honest question- do you have any experience whatsoever with upper level trainers of any discipline? Because this type of situation is incredibly common in the horse world.

Seriously. People still train with Paul Valliere for goodness sake, and he was convicted of killing horses for insurance money and banned for life from sanctioned showing. There are plenty of people out there who either don’t realize because they’re new, or don’t care because they get a pretty ribbon at the end of the day. At least with someone like Valliere, it comes up on a google. Googling this one, you get her farm and a bunch of EN stuff like “who rode it best.”

[fordtraktor]

PV is far from the only one. Chicago area horse trainers affiliated with that debacle still abound. It’s frightening!

[PAF]

Other 4* Riders/Trainers

[QUOTE=IrishWillow;8982962]
Angela and Sydney Elliott are also Area V and both 4* / Rolex riders too.[/QUOTE]

Angela (Grzywinski) Bowles has completed Rolex twice, I believe Sydney (Conley) Elliott has completed Rolex once. Angela is located in Burleson, TX and Sydney is located in the same place as Julie Norman, Benton, LA. Mike Huber is a long time world class rider. I believe Angela came up through his system from the beginning of her riding career. He is located north of Fort Worth. I am sure there are others I am forgetting.

When you are looking for an instructor/trainer, it really pays to go to shows and observe them doing their thing. You can be a fabulous rider but a lousy instructor/trainer. There are people that are more interested in teaching than competing. If your goals are to compete in the higher levels, find someone who has successfully taught someone to those levels. Look for trainers that have long term relationships with their students. Look for trainers that have good long term relationships with event organizers, etc.

I am very sorry about the OP’s loss and the hard times she has gone through to get and keep her horses safe. Hopefully her willingness to speak out will help prevent tragedies like this in the future.

[lucegoose]

When you are looking for an instructor/trainer, it really pays to go to shows and observe them doing their thing.

This is the best advice of all. I have seen some pretty amazing things in stabling/trailer parking from some BNRs, including some that many here on COTH moon over. I always make mental notes of people that look like they have their act together and those that don’t, whether or not I’m shopping for a trainer. It’s just good to be aware for future reference.

I’m a bit sad to see a former horse of someone I know is in this trainer’s barn now. :no: