[QUOTE=Ainsley688;8982333]
Well, sheeeeeeeit boy, made it all the way to COTH. Merry Christmas everybody.[/QUOTE]
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that this is Ainsley C, one of Ellen’s working students. Not only was she mentioned in one of Ellen’s recent posts, but she posted on COTH recently about moving to TX for a working student position. If this is the case, Ainsley, would you mind sharing your side of the story?
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Thank you for posting this Stormy. Too many unsavory stories about Ellen. Thank you for having the guts to speak out.
Agreed! And I agree with all those posters who offered positive encouragement.
Equiniphile, I do indeed work for Ellen. I am currently the barn manager, and started off as a working student. I have been here for over a year, and have been involved in most of the grievances listed. I cannot share my part quite yet, since I am working (I know, shocker, taking care of the horses…) and would have to type everything out on the computer. I will post later when I have the time.
Honestly, I’ve had to move one horse TWICE this year. It sucked, royally, and I got lucky as both barns were easy to find and close to home. I honestly can’t imagine trying to move more than that, especially the numbers we’re talking about, especially in an area not known for for tons of great boarding options (spoiled here in Area 2).
As for the “professional” in question…because of things I’ve been told about her, I had a feeling, as soon as I opened the thread, that it would be her. She has a pretty poor reputation, and is starting to sound like a character that I’ve had run ins with in this area (she has more of a competitive resume, at least).
On many of these threads it’s super popular to blame the victim. They treated the barn workers poorly and deserved what they got, they are young, they work in a questionable job, they obviously had enough money to act faster, etc. There are several recent threads where the victim is blamed for not doing something to prevent everything from happening in the first place. Yet these victim blaming posters put no burden on the person who has done the wronging.
What I find interesting is this is one of the only threads I’ve seen where multiple people have first hand experience that seems to support the OP. Usually nobody knows the situation or people in question and it’s sometimes hard to tell what is truth and what is someone out to cause trouble.
It’s difficult because in these situations it’s the person who was wronged who is forced to stay quiet, because it’s more important to be professional and not cause trouble than to be truthful and spread the word. I myself have gotten reprimanded for spreading documented facts or in person experience. We wonder why people get ripped off by scamming tack store owners, or have their horses neglected by smooth talking barn owners, or pay for training that never happens by lazy trainers.
I’m not blaming op, I just think you have to expect clarification and understanding.
There have been many threads where digging a bit uncovered very different situations then first implied, so again not knowing op how can we assess the situation?
My friends can move multiple horses. I realize many can’t, no judgment on that from me. A “take home message” is a way to turn it into a positive thread.
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8983246]
I’m not blaming op, I just think you have to expect clarification and understanding.
There have been many threads where digging a bit uncovered very different situations then first implied, so again not knowing op how can we assess the situation?
My friends can move multiple horses. I realize many can’t, no judgment on that from me. A “take home message” is a way to turn it into a positive thread.[/QUOTE]
There is a very big difference between blaming a victim and inquiring curiously for more information. Both have been blatantly shown on this thread.
[QUOTE=Ainsley688;8983197]
Equiniphile, I do indeed work for Ellen. I am currently the barn manager, and started off as a working student. I have been here for over a year, and have been involved in most of the grievances listed. I cannot share my part quite yet, since I am working (I know, shocker, taking care of the horses…) and would have to type everything out on the computer. I will post later when I have the time.[/QUOTE]
As a barn owner in the area - not far from your barn where you work - I am personally looking forward to your post so that I can better understand the rationale involved.
In the last year and a half 2 horses have come from your barn profoundly underweight. The first one was not in your care according to the timeline was about 100-150 pounds underweight, with food agression and behavioral issues. I am delighted to say that horse is healthy, happy and doing quite well.
The second one was actually in your care bsaed on the timeline. He was groestquely underweight. Let me repeat myself - grotesquely underweight. Shame on you!! And shame on Ellen!!! If you don’t know what a healthy weight looks like you shouldn’t be a barn manager. Perhaps you need to go back to being a working student and get some more education. That horse was so malnurished, I was initially embarrassed to turn him out for fear that someone would think I did that to him. Fortunately, after 4 months of proper nutrition and exercise the horse is starting to look normal.
So please do explain that to me. And to Stormy17’s point, it is not slander if it’s true. So yes, in case anyone asks, both can be verified by pictures, witnesses and vet records.
And as for the weather - flash floods, hail storms, etc. - I, along with every other barn in the area, were dealing with the same things and had no incidents as far as I know. So I’m real curious about the thinking and rationale for the decisions that were made.
Here’s the good news, this could very well be an opportunity for you to add to your equine education about what/what not to do.
Eagerly awaiting your post.
[QUOTE=tldickinson;8983279]
There is a very big difference between blaming a victim and inquiring curiously for more information. Both have been blatantly shown on this thread.[/QUOTE]
Listen OP and friends. There’s also a lot of instances of people lying on the internet to smear people because they’re feuding with them. Three sides to every story, yours, mine and the truth, and what not.
You can’t possibly expect to go on the internet guns blazing, post an outrageous set of facts, and not expect some questioning from a group of people who don’t know you or the trainer involved from Adam. Absent any personal or even second-hand experience with either of you, and absent proof, why would people believe you? People make up crap on the internet all the time. With worse consequences than your feelings getting hurt.
Maybe everything you’ve posted is true. That’s very sad for you and even sadder for your horses.
But please stop playing the “woe is me I’m being victim shamed” card because a couple of internet posters who don’t know you at all weren’t willing to take your really crazy story at face value.
We all make mistakes when it comes to horses - I’ve made plenty. The key is to own those mistakes and fix the situation ASAP.
As horse owners we are ultimately responsible for what happens to our horses. This is true even if we board them out and no matter what we pay the trainer. That is the responsibility that comes with ownership.
If you are not a minor, and there is no other illegal activity going on that prevents you from moving (physical threats, blackmail etc), and you keep your horses in a situation where they are in serious danger (not just for the time it takes to make arrangements to move them but for what given the events has to be months if not years) after not one but many obvious red flags you are NOT a victim. You’re an accomplice.
As someone who is frequently away from my horses due to work I have made poor judgement calls with respect to barns and trainers before, but when I realized things were going poorly I moved them ASAP (into a couple different peoples backyards without facilities as a short term fix - since they were friends i knew I could trust).
If all these things in the OP are true then yes the trainer is at fault but so is the horse owner.
This is NOT victim blaming - this is expecting some level of reasonable personal accountability from horse owners. The horses are the victims not the owner.
If the horse’s owner is not willing to take responsibility for the safety and well-being of that horse - why do you think anyone else will?
[QUOTE=NCRider;8983336]
Listen OP and friends. There’s also a lot of instances of people lying on the internet to smear people because they’re feuding with them. Three sides to every story, yours, mine and the truth, and what not.
You can’t possibly expect to go on the internet guns blazing, post an outrageous set of facts, and not expect some questioning from a group of people who don’t know you or the trainer involved from Adam. Absent any personal or even second-hand experience with either of you, and absent proof, why would people believe you? People make up crap on the internet all the time. With worse consequences than your feelings getting hurt.
Maybe everything you’ve posted is true. That’s very sad for you and even sadder for your horses.
But please stop playing the “woe is me I’m being victim shamed” card because a couple of internet posters who don’t know you at all weren’t willing to take your really crazy story at face value.[/QUOTE]
Listen NCRider. Your point is well taken - had you posted it yesterday. However, if you look at the comments here and on the OP’s Facebook post, it is starting to suggest there are some merit to her claims. Patterns are starting to emerge that are hard to ignore. So while that argument is valid at the onset of this conversation, overtime it’s becoming less and less valid.
Why not, in the same post, question both the OP and the trainer? Why just the OP? Why not also ask the forum if anyone else had had similar experiences? People could reply with a simple yes or no.
NCRider- for the record I am neither a friend nor the OP. I am a bystander who has no dog in this fight. As I said before, there is a strong difference between blasting a victim and being concerned there is more to the story. I was also curious as to knowing more. But there were a number of people who explored this with callousness and a lack of tact. Until proven to be wrong, a possible victim should be treated as though they speak truth and you simply want more details. That did not happen here, once again, hence both of my posts.
[QUOTE=NCRider;8983336]
Listen OP and friends. There’s also a lot of instances of people lying on the internet to smear people because they’re feuding with them. Three sides to every story, yours, mine and the truth, and what not.
You can’t possibly expect to go on the internet guns blazing, post an outrageous set of facts, and not expect some questioning from a group of people who don’t know you or the trainer involved from Adam. Absent any personal or even second-hand experience with either of you, and absent proof, why would people believe you? People make up crap on the internet all the time. With worse consequences than your feelings getting hurt.
Maybe everything you’ve posted is true. That’s very sad for you and even sadder for your horses.
But please stop playing the “woe is me I’m being victim shamed” card because a couple of internet posters who don’t know you at all weren’t willing to take your really crazy story at face value.[/QUOTE]
Also NCRider - Stormy17 clearly states the following in her OP:
“Sharing your personal experiences publicly is NOT slander if it is TRUE. I have photos, videos, vet statements, witnesses, etc to back up EVERY SINGLE CLAIM.”
That statement alone made me pay attention because who would make such outrageous claims in a public forum without being able to back it up? She also hasn’t been hiding. I saw her comment mid-way through. Which means she didn’t drop a bomb and run and hide. That for me said a lot. Maybe I am naive, but I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. That said, I’m also familiar with the trainer in question and her reputation in Area V. So perhaps I am one part naive, one part biased. Either way, I am starting to believe that some truth must lie in the claims.
And where is the trainer in all of this? Certainly she is aware of this thread by now.
I frequently cruise these forums and have never, until now, had the desire to create an account but feel compelled to now. I have never seen such a pechulent display. Assuming this situation is between two grown women, I think it is disgusting to take a matter such as this to a forum board and for the masses to proceed to have opinions on either party in the transaction. The only people that should be involved is the OP, the trainer and some lawyers. Shame on people for bandwagoning in either case. These are real people with real lives, families and careers - not to mention very real feelings. I am left absolutely disgusted in the horse community after reading this careless, mindless thread. I hope that the individuals involved can reach a resolution based on fact and not some passion driven blame game.
After a hundreds years in the business I know first hand it is unforgiving, perilous in fact - but it’s crap like this that gives horse people a bad rap. Heartbreaking.
Highflyer
This seems like a situation that should be pursued legally, rather than via a bulletin board.
Suing is what you do when you want money.
This is what you do when all you want is to help people (and their animals) avoid the same fate as you.
Silence protects the guilty, at the expense of the innocent. Speaking out is putting yourself on the firing line, but the first few who have the courage to do that are the ones who can stop the cycle. The only ones.
FTR, I don’t know any of the people on this thread, but the dynamic that’s playing out here is typical. I remember rolling my eyes when the first few Bill Cosby accusers went public…
[QUOTE=Oldandwithered;8983392]
I frequently cruise these forums and have never, until now, had the desire to create an account but feel compelled to now. I have never seen such a pechulent display. Assuming this situation is between two grown women, I think it is disgusting to take a matter such as this to a forum board and for the masses to proceed to have opinions on either party in the transaction. The only people that should be involved is the OP, the trainer and some lawyers. Shame on people for bandwagoning in either case. These are real people with real lives, families and careers - not to mention very real feelings. I am left absolutely disgusted in the horse community after reading this careless, mindless thread. I hope that the individuals involved can reach a resolution based on fact and not some passion driven blame game.
After a hundreds years in the business I know first hand it is unforgiving, perilous in fact - but it’s crap like this that gives horse people a bad rap. Heartbreaking.[/QUOTE]
You’re free to carry that opinion, but threads like these that are LEGIT regarding unsavory business people have saved more than a few people from disaster, including myself. If it wasn’t for this forum and threads like this, I would have made a HUGE mistake in purchasing an OTTB from an unsavory seller in Kentucky posing as someone who retrains and rehomes these horses, when really they were just flipping horses regardless of whether or not they were sound or sane. Because of this forum, I was able to reverse my payment and dodge a bullet.
So while you think these type situations should be kept private, I wonder if you would feel that way if it happened to you and everyone kept quiet about it?
MinnieMouse -
I think, honestly, its as simple as “Raise your hand if you or a friend has had a problem with Ellen in the past? Now, raise your hand if you’ve had multiple friends have issues with Ellen.”
Is there anyone in Area V with their hand down?
[QUOTE=Smthn_Like_Olivia;8983409]
You’re free to carry that opinion, but threads like these that are LEGIT regarding unsavory business people have saved more than a few people from disaster, including myself. If it wasn’t for this forum and threads like this, I would have made a HUGE mistake in purchasing an OTTB from an unsavory seller in Kentucky posing as someone who retrains and rehomes these horses, when really they were just flipping horses regardless of whether or not they were sound or sane. Because of this forum, I was able to reverse my payment and dodge a bullet.
So while you think these type situations should be kept private, I wonder if you would feel that way if it happened to you and everyone kept quiet about it?[/QUOTE]
Perhaps, but if I stopped shopping at every place with a negative Yelp review I’d be naked and very hungry. For every horror story there tends to be 10 positives. Very glad you were able avoid buying a horse OTTB from a swindler. Good homework.
In the OP’s original post, 13, 14, 15 and 18 are easily verifiable through other sources.
7 - 10 are the kinds of complaints routinely made by boarders; not damning in and off themselves, but serve to paint a picture of the kind of care and customer service that she experienced.
The rest could be verified/corroborated by other students or clients if they were willing to speak out.
No one, not even the working student, has directly contradicted anything in the original post (“It’s not true and the client was a nightmare” is not a direct contradiction) and a lot of posters, either directly or indirectly, have corroborated the original post.
Finally, the OP put her personally identifiable information out here for all to see. This isn’t an anonymous accusation, she more or less signed her name to it.
That takes some seriously large ovaries to open yourself up to the kind of personal attacks that inevitably materialized.
After a hundreds years in the business I know first hand it is unforgiving, perilous in fact - but it’s crap like this that gives horse people a bad rap. Heartbreaking.
That’s a phenomenal achievement, those hundreds of years in the business. Pray tell, does the source of this longevity also sell majickal verbal leashes as well? I feel certain that those will come in handy.
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