My horrible experiences with Texas horse trainer/instructor Ellen Doughty-Hume

[OverandOnward]

@Whoaovergo

I understood it as a rotational because in her post she said “he never left the ground and flipped over it” I wouldn’t use the term flipped if it wasn’t rotational, but there’s a lot of things Ellen does and says that I wouldn’t do.

I would understand “he never left the ground and flipped over” differently. Just based on having seen the photo series of the incident.

I think it felt to her as if he “flipped over”, because his body pushed across but then he dropped out from under her, and she ended up on the ground. “Flipped over” could refer to the sloppy way the momentum propelled him over the obstacle, while leaving his legs on the other side.

Her use of expressions could easily be understood in different ways. She wasn’t speaking very precisely. I think that what she said probably did express the way it felt to her.

Had the horse not managed to get his front legs back under him, it could have been a true head-down feet-up cartwheel. Lucky that didn’t happen.

[TwiSedai]

I feel like she might have used that expression for dramatic affect, tbh. Looking at the pictures, he caught his front legs on the jump, but put the landing gear down soon enough to avoid a full rotational fall. It doesn’t look like the horse actually flipped and hit the ground. She got launched when his back end started to rotate over. Unless there are pictures of the sequence where he DID hit the ground that she left out. But from what she posted, it doesn’t look quite like what she said happened.

[thoroughbred22]

Her FB page has photos of these 2 “German ponies” who have “arrived”.

Who has not been feeding them??

[cristalle]

Those poor things. They look terrible.

[Eclectic_Horseman]

@thoroughbred22

2 “German ponies” who have “arrived”.

From a rescue?

[iberianfan]

Some horses drop weight during importation, if that’s the case.

[CleverUserName]

@iberianfan

Some horses drop weight during importation, if that’s the case.

Absolutely, that can happen.

HOWEVER… where’s the filter that a professional should have (or, anyone with any knowledge of horses) to stop and THINK for a microsecond ‘Huh, these horses are far too thin at the moment. Maybe I should hold off on posting this picture where they are starting to look borderline emaciated? Maybe I should post a teaser saying ’ We have two German ponies…more information to come!’ and maybe just post a closeup of their eye or something?

If you’re that oblivious to not be able to think two steps into the future about a picture… what else are you missing in the real world?

[Angela_Freda]

Exactly, even if just to protect the seller and/importers reputation.
Yikes.

[Angela_Freda]

https://paulickreport.com/horse-care-category/breakin-all-the-rules-spicy-louisiana-bred-ottb-ready-to-tackle-her-first-kentucky-three-day

[MHM]

Huh. That was interesting.

[Jo]

@Angela_Freda

https://paulickreport.com/horse-care-category/breakin-all-the-rules-spicy-louisiana-bred-ottb-ready-to-tackle-her-first-kentucky-three-day

9.20: Ellen Doughty-Hume and Breakin’ All The Rules pull up after some issues at the coffin, which reminds me of the one at the CCI4*-L at Bicton last year, which was influential there, too. Ellen opted to go left at the C element, had her runout, and then tried again over the right-hand brush option, picking up another refusal. It’s not going to be an easy day out there.

Source: https://eventingnation.com/3-2-1-go-its-the-kentucky-cci4-s-live-updates-thread-baby/

[trubandloki]

I am not a fan of EDH, but I do not find a 26yo passing to necessarily being nefarious.

[wanderlust]

I would normally agree, but many horses do really well into their late 20s and 30s now when managed well. I’m not a vet but the topline muscle wasting, exposed spine and pelvic bones in a horse of that age screams unmanaged PPID/Cushings to me.

[trubandloki]

@wanderlust

I would normally agree, but many horses do really well into their late 20s and 30s now when managed well. I’m not a vet but the topline muscle wasting/exposed spine and pelvic bones in a horse of that age scream unmanaged PPID/Cushings to me.

And some well managed and very loved horses do not make it that long.
26 is old and lots can go wrong at that point.

Again, I am not a fan of EDH.

(I had a very loved and very spoiled horse PTS at 26 who simply did not age well and nothing we did changed that. Like people, sometimes things suck.)

[beowulf]

@wanderlust

I would normally agree, but many horses do really well into their late 20s and 30s now when managed well. I’m not a vet but the topline muscle wasting, exposed spine and pelvic bones in a horse of that age screams unmanaged PPID/Cushings to me.

Could be neuro. He is standing close behind in that photo. He has enough flesh over his ribs I can’t reasonably assume it was neglect.

I am not a fan of EHD and frankly found most of the “tribute photos” of this sweet, lovely horse to have some major safety or “non-Pony-Clubbish” flaw to them, but I can’t fault her for a 26 y/o euthanasia either.

This is N=1 and in no way confirmed data – I’ve wondered if racing has an adverse affect on aging gracefully. Their bodies get used up before they’re even 5. Obviously other factors can influence aging well, like genetics and life-long care. Just thinking of my own experience, my late gelding with 75+ starts didn’t even make it to 23. It made me look at other heavily campaigned horses I knew (50+ starts) and I saw a pattern of them having lots of neuro issues and declining fast. I don’t think it’s a problem with TBs specifically, just what is asked of them so young.

I do agree we have medical advances and therapies now that make aging to late 20s to early 30s more obtainable than it was 20 years ago, but not every horse can age well.

[wanderlust]

Totally fair.

[Jo]

@wanderlust

I would normally agree, but many horses do really well into their late 20s and 30s now when managed well.

My heart horse passed at 27. I took, what I believe to be, impeccable care of her including extensive vet care. Does this make me a bad person that she didn’t live until her 30s? Come on now, horses pass or are euth’ed for a variety of reasons. Again, I’m not a fan of ED, but I cannot fault her here without more knowledge other than one pic posted.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Personally, I’d be more inclined to wonder if selective breeding is partly to blame–in a breed where the focus is on early performance, longevity might not necessarily be a priority in the characteristics that are selected in a sire/dam when breeding. (Just speculating, I’m happy to hear more experienced views.) Of course, there are many exceptions to the rule.

On the opposite side, think of all the long-lived scrubby native pony breeds, where living long in the wild raises the chance of you passing on your genetics over your lifespan.

Speaking of ponies, I find the choice of “paint a pony” a little weird for EHD’s FB page photo. Just most UL eventers use a competition photo or a photo of their farm.

[Janet]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

Personally, I’d be more inclined to wonder if selective breeding is partly to blame–in a breed where the focus is on early performance, longevity might not necessarily be a priority in the characteristics that are selected in a sire/dam when breeding. (Just speculating, I’m happy to hear more experienced views.) Of course, there are many exceptions to the rule.

My oldest horse, who died at age 36, was a race-bred (but unraced) TB

[beowulf]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

Personally, I’d be more inclined to wonder if selective breeding is partly to blame–in a breed where the focus is on early performance, longevity might not necessarily be a priority in the characteristics that are selected in a sire/dam when breeding. (Just speculating, I’m happy to hear more experienced views.) Of course, there are many exceptions to the rule.

We know this to be true in the beef and pig industry. Selective pressure on faster growth times and fertility has resulted in some unintended health defects - but there is also a higher degree of inbreeding in these populations.

I can’t say with confidence that the TB is there yet as I’ve known many to make it to their 30s, both raced and unraced, but I think racing puts a strain on their bodies that they can’t handle as easily once they become aged (20s+). We have a 26 y/o raced TB now who is not as in good condition as his unraced 29 y/o paddock mate. The 26 y/o has outsurvived his dam and sire in terms of age, and both of those were heavily raced. My small sample size, of course.