My horrible experiences with Texas horse trainer/instructor Ellen Doughty-Hume

[Old_Mac_Donald]

Si I just had my 26yo put to sleep last week. I owned her for 17 years. She was sound, fat, grazing happily on the day. Does that make me a shitty owner? Did I “not manage her well”? No, she was in bloody heart failure which you can’t tell from a photo but you CAN tell when you own the bloody horse.

For all you know, the horse had cancer. Maybe the horse was in organ failure. Maybe it was JUST HIS TIME.

Jesus Christ. I know Ellen is the biggest blot in eventing right now, but picking apart an RIP for a 26 year old horse is just scraping the bottom of the muck heap, ffs.

[DownYonder]

@Old_Mac_Donald

I know Ellen is the biggest blot in eventing right now, but picking apart an RIP for a 26 year old horse is just scraping the bottom of the muck heap, ffs.

That was my thought, too.

My gelding passed two weeks shy of his 17th birthday from a bad flare-up of EPM that resulted in not only a moderately severe herniated disc at L6-S1 but also significantly impaired proprioception in his hind end. I was terrified he would suffer an even more catastrophic injury and I didn’t want him to die in agony - he was in enough pain as it was - so I sent him over the Bridge. I would give my soul (almost) to have had a few more years with him but it wasn’t meant to be.

I am not going to condemn anyone for having to put down a 26 y/o horse.

[firecracker]

Looks like the post about the 26 year old gelding being put to sleep was made by @rockwallhorsedad, whose daughter spent time at Ellen’s. This poster may or may not have had much hands-on experience with horses, and he may or may not understand that putting an aged horse to sleep is not abnormal or unkind, in most cases.

Of course picking apart the euthanasia of an older gelding is unreasonable. I think anybody that has spent any time around horses knows this. I am pretty sure I rode Parker in lessons, back in the day. Honestly, I can’t remember for sure… that was many years ago, I have the memory of a gnat, and I lessoned on quite a few at Ellen’s during my brief time riding with her.

May he rest in peace.

Edited to add: I am not an Ellen fan and wouldn’t touch her business with a 10 foot pole based on all the things I’ve seen and heard over the years, so I hope this post isn’t taken as supportive of Ellen. Just wanted to respond to the conversation surrounding Parker’s passing.

[rockwallhorsedad]

I am just a horse dad and I don’t know anything about horses. But I am quickly learning more and more about horse people.

I’ve removed my post out of respect of everyone’s “feelings”. But I will say this, in the limited about amount of time we have been involved with Ellen and her barn, I have seen several horses die, head injuries, broken arms, tainted feed, countless employees quit their job, horses running down highways & getting injured, a mass exit of boarders, poor business practices, dog attacks; and an ongoing lawsuit with a PORN STAR! So yeah, when I see a post that another horse is dead at her barn, I thought all of you Ellen haters would be interested in learning more about what happened; so I shared it.

Just to be clear: I never mentioned anything about Ellen or suggested that it was her fault in my post. I simply shared her FB post and commented that it was “sad”. But here is what is really sad: there are over 1800 comments on this thread spouting hate towards Ellen. Everything from dead horses to sexual predators to drug dealing and DUIs have been mentioned by you all. But not ONE of you have had the guts to leave a negative review on her Google or FB page.

[anon6923113]

@rockwallhorsedad

I am just a horse dad and I don’t know anything about horses. But I am quickly learning more and more about horse people.

I’ve removed my post out of respect of everyone’s “feelings”. But I will say this, in the limited about amount of time we have been involved with Ellen and her barn, I have seen several horses die, head injuries, broken arms, tainted feed, countless employees quit their job, horses running down highways & getting injured, a mass exit of boarders, poor business practices, dog attacks; and an ongoing lawsuit with a PORN STAR! So yeah, when I see a post that another horse is dead at her barn, I thought all of you Ellen haters would be interested in learning more about what happened; so I shared it.

Just to be clear: I never mentioned anything about Ellen or suggested that it was her fault in my post. I simply shared her FB post and commented that it was “sad”. But here is what is really sad: there are over 1800 comments on this thread spouting hate towards Ellen. Everything from dead horses to sexual predators to drug dealing and DUIs have been mentioned by you all. But not ONE of you have had the guts to leave a negative review on her Google or FB page.

A few things.

First… it’s understandable where you were coming from with the comment on this thread. You just inadvertently hit a nerve common to many horse people who have owned a horse long into their twenties/thirties, and eventually made a decision to euthanize the horse for one reason or other. These end of life situations for equines can be challenging and very subjective. So some people who have been longtime owners reacted a bit defensively to your comment, only because we have been there, and it’s a tough issue at times.

But as for the rest of the stuff that has reportedly gone on at her facility and with students and horses in her program? It sounds VERY problematic. And people have commented on this thread to either:

1. Share firsthand knowledge or experiences regarding issues there…

Or

2. Share perspective that yeah… the reported issues are well outside of the norm, and sound seriously problematic

I don’t know that I would characterize all that as simply a matter of people “spouting hate towards Ellen.” A lot of the commentary has been more a matter of people discussing how some of these issues seem concerning and extraordinary… and like there might be safety and welfare concerns for students and equines.

As for people not posting negative reviews on her Facebook, but posting on COTH instead? You have a fair point. But that’s how it works with horses and plenty of other competitive sports. People and parents share concerning information via in person chats, private messages, etc… but people are hesitant to call someone out publicly. It is what it is.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I don’t know if this is true in other people’s areas, but if you Google “horseback riding near me” in my very horsey state, most of the places have 4* and up, many nothing but 5* reviews. The only ones with low stars are trail riding places, where non-horsey people are leaving complaints like they might about a restaurant with a one-off experience.

The 5* rated barns includes place I’ve heard (or seen) many questionable things about. Most people I know don’t check Google reviews before trying a trainer, and the horse world is small, and people don’t like to get a reputation as “difficult.” I’ve heard of people even experiencing reservations when a close friend is thinking about a terrible trainer, even telling them one-on-one. Which I think is a little crazy.

Unless someone is leaving the area, or getting out of horses, they rarely put things in print (and gossip only in whispers).

[MHM]

@anon6923113

A lot of the commentary has been more a matter of people discussing how some of these issues seem concerning and extraordinary… and like there might be safety and welfare concerns for students and equines.

Many of those comments are coming from people who are just reading the thread and have no direct knowledge or firsthand experience with the subject.

So it would not be surprising if those people don’t leave reviews for someone they don’t actually know themselves.

[trubandloki]

@rockwallhorsedad, I think it is great that you are looking out for the horse world and exposing the horrible things that EDH has done.
I totally get how one more horse dying there seems like just one more horrible death at her hand.
You might very well be right in this case.

I admit that it hit a nerve for me. Euthanizing a very special horse at that very same age was very hard for me. I wanted him to live forever, but it was just not in the cards.

[OverandOnward]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

I’ve heard of people even experiencing reservations when a close friend is thinking about a terrible trainer, even telling them one-on-one. Which I think is a little crazy.

Unless someone is leaving the area, or getting out of horses, they rarely put things in print (and gossip only in whispers).

This is very understandable, and horse people are not the only people who operate this way.

But it leaves people new to a sport, an enterprise, a group, a geographic area, etc. vulnerable to manipulation, because they are not plugged into the network. And it is not a surprise that a problematic operator often has primarily a stream of new people in their operation – new to the activity, and/or new to the region.

I completely understand anyone’s reluctance to post publicly on a FB page or even a general-audience review site. It can bring an unwarranted torrent of hate, of doxing, of attack both online and even in person. The negative blowback can be out of all proportion to the review. Going public is popping the lid on a Pandora’s box of unknown consequences as a result of an attempted good deed. Maybe nothing bad comes of it, but there is no knowing.

The OP of this thread took a huge risk to go public as she did in 2016. She was far braver than most of us. She felt she could deal with the consequences, and so far has done so. Not for nothing, ED is suing her for coming forward with her personal experiences and encouraging others to do the same. Experiences that reflect generally on what has gone on in ED’s operation concerning horse welfare, and continues to occur, even though the OP is now out of the ED picture for years.

[fanfayre]

My deepest condolences to you

[trakehners]

@OverandOnward

I completely understand anyone’s reluctance to post publicly on a FB page or even a general-audience review site. It can bring an unwarranted torrent of hate, of doxing, of attack both online and even in person. The negative blowback can be out of all proportion to the review. Going public is popping the lid on a Pandora’s box of unknown consequences as a result of an attempted good deed. Maybe nothing bad comes of it, but there is no knowing.

Alongside this, it’s then easy to say “Well, post it anonymously!” but then you run into people not believing what you say (or being influenced to not believe it) because there isn’t a name attached to it. There’s no good way to do anything other than review positively in the horse world, imo, and most of the “reviews” (good or bad) still end up being entirely word-of-mouth as opposed to posted online, which once again leaves out people who are new to the sport/region and don’t have that network to source information from.

I’m trying to decide if we need an equestrian Yelp but I think that would probably just create even more strife than we already have

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@trakehners

I’m trying to decide if we need an equestrian Yelp but I think that would probably just create even more strife than we already have

There wouldn’t be enough mods in the world to handle that!

The closest I’ve seen to public bad reviews are on FB horse forums. The few I remember are people posting photos of bad farrier jobs or moldy hay, complaining and saying not to use X provider, and then the farrier/ hay guy’s defenders jump in and it turns into a billion comments quickly and gets shut down when the mods get active.

I do wish people in private would be more honest with their friends one-on-one, though, not in a gossipy way, but if they have a genuine concern about a trainer.

I find people here on COTH to be very honest, not just in this thread but in others. I don’t mean the randos who have five posts, but people who come on here regularly.

[OverandOnward]

Remember the website Rate My Horse Pro? It was intended to be a review site, and it was up for a time. Can only guess why it is no longer in existence.

[cristalle]

@OverandOnward

But it leaves people new to a sport, an enterprise, a group, a geographic area, etc. vulnerable to manipulation, because they are not plugged into the network. And it is not a surprise that a problematic operator often has primarily a stream of new people in their operation – new to the activity, and/or new to the region.

I completely understand anyone’s reluctance to post publicly on a FB page or even a general-audience review site. It can bring an unwarranted torrent of hate, of doxing, of attack both online and even in person. The negative blowback can be out of all proportion to the review. Going public is popping the lid on a Pandora’s box of unknown consequences as a result of an attempted good deed. Maybe nothing bad comes of it, but there is no knowing.

The OP of this thread took a huge risk to go public as she did in 2016. She was far braver than most of us. She felt she could deal with the consequences, and so far has done so. Not for nothing, ED is suing her for coming forward with her personal experiences and encouraging others to do the same. Experiences that reflect generally on what has gone on in ED’s operation concerning horse welfare, and continues to occur, even though the OP is now out of the ED picture for years.

I agree with this. I think parents who are unfamiliar with the sport or horses, will google or check the FB page, and seeing only glowing reports, move in.
They find out differently and then move on, but new people move in…
But everyone mostly stays quiet.

The OP was very brave, and continues to be. I saw the derision and snide comments directed towards her by EDH fans on this thread, mostly about her job, as if that has anything to do with anything, or invalidates her experiences.
She continues to be brave, when it would be much easier (and much safer) to just stay quiet and move on. I have respect for her and wish her the best in the days to come.

[pmysliwski]

Agree. The horses do not look well kept.

[archieflies]

Re: the ponies, I had to dig back through but remembered seeing a post about them last month… they were purchased in Germany in 2022 and just now imported. (I know zilch about importation and what the normal timetable is.) She posted photos straight off the plane and mentioned a name of who would be caring for them for a few weeks until she could get to Florida… they didn’t look stunning coming off the plane, but maybe also didn’t put on weight in the weeks post-flight either. Chestnut looks in worse shape (but was also pretty hairy in the first pic). Her intro post once she had them home did mention their need for groceries. Maybe some would wait until they were more fit to post photos, but I can also fathom being excited and sharing right away. I’d share a screenshot, but don’t think I have that forum privilege. Post was 3/22.

[Janet]

@anon6923113

As for people not posting negative reviews on her Facebook, but posting on COTH instead? You have a fair point. But that’s how it works with horses and plenty of other competitive sports. People and parents share concerning information via in person chats, private messages, etc… but people are hesitant to call someone out publicly. It is what it is.

But the COTH forums are just as “public” as Facebook (though maybe with a smaller audience). Especially THIS thread, as it was mentioned in the Washingtom Post article.

[OverandOnward]

True but, there don’t seem to be many / any random strangers parachuting in to chat. Although they may be reading silently.

Years ago when this thread was first discovered by the gp, there were posts by just-registered’s "do you know what she does for a living ??? " They were told that, yes, everyone knows, no one cares, this is a horse welfare thread, and that is the only topic of interest. They disappeared. I guess horse welfare wasn’t that interesting to them.

[cristalle]

@OverandOnward

Years ago when this thread was first discovered by the gp, there were posts by just-registered’s "do you know what she does for a living ??? " They were told that, yes, everyone knows, no one cares, this is a horse welfare thread, and that is the only topic of interest. They disappeared. I guess horse welfare wasn’t that interesting to them.

That’s interesting. Back then, when those snide references to Stormy’s job were being made by new posters, in an attempt to discredit her, I didn’t think they were from the general public, but rather from friends/supporters of EDH.
But your last point still applies: maybe horse welfare wasn’t that interesting or important to them. Or, maybe they found out for themselves.

[Bensmom]

@Ghazzu

@Bluey

I thought it was illegal for anyone but a properly certified veterinarian to treat other’s horses?

The precise wording varies by state (sometimes, IIRC, it requires money changing hands) but typically it isn’t on any radar until an owner complains to the state board.

(Pardon the deviation into my area of specialty)

@ghazzu is correct. In Florida, for instance, it doesn’t require $ to change hands, but that is often the way it can be proven, if a complaint was filed. In Florida, it includes “the determination of the health, fitness, or soundness of any animal.”

Therefore, having your trainer watch your horse trot up could be the illegal practice of veterinary medicine. Fortunately, there is a good bit of common sense used in evaluating claims of the unlicensed practice. But, it doesn’t require a complaint by an owner to have a case opened in Florida. If the Department sees unlicensed activity (ULA) a case can be originated.

There is, though, a total exemption for things any owner does to their own horse. Except for the treatment or vaccination of four things (rabies, brucellosis, TB, and EEE) any owner can do anything to their own horses. Except you could run afoul of animal cruelty laws on the County level, but other than those four things, it isn’t the practice of veterinary medicine if you own the animal.

But to additionally qualify, a trainer should not be “diagnosing” (or not) on a horse that belongs to a client. The Department, who prosecutes on behalf of the Vet Board, might not know about those incidents, but should a client decide to complain if there was an adverse impact, it can cause a huge problem. In Florida, ULA is criminal as well as prosecutable by the Department.