California!
and yes, i do but the thing won’t let me upload as it says “Invalid” i have no idea how to fix that
But he was underweight and in “horrid condition.” And in only a few short months his hocks needed to be injected because he was (at the very least) found to be off or “stiff” in a lameness exam despite being in work.
So I am not entirely sure I would have called that passing a PPE with flying colors. That said, a PPE can only see so much. On that day, your vet felt there was more good than bad. That’s all a PPE really tells you unless you do the full package, which is unrealistically expensive for most average middle aged horses. If I were investing in a million dollar racehorse - you bet.
Believe me, I wish the PPE on my retired 15 year old was more extensive. Now, at least. At the time I didn’t think spending more than $1K on a $3K horse was worth it. But, they are not even close to being foolproof. Had we xrayed both stifles we probably would have passed on the horse. We did flexions and there was nothing alarming; not perfect but not bad.
We’re easily spent more than her purchase price in diagnostics and treatment for lameness, but it was a full stop when we saw the stifles. She’s pasture sound; at least we know that it is not worth investing in more.
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There are actually a few things you can do about melanomas. Cimetidine is effective for some horses. Oncept works really well for others. And there’s another immune mediated treatment available. That your vets are unaware of ALL these things is concerning–Oncept is pretty new (I think we started hearing about it within the last ten years) but has gotten quite a lot of press. Cimetidine is an ooooooold treatment that’s been around forever.
So at his PPE he flexed off enough on several joints to require blocking and radiographs? What was found there and how was it determined that it wasn’t a problem?
How long ago were the hocks injected? Was he flexed, blocked and radiographed? How was his SI checked?
Yeah, that’s how the people who sell the pessoa system describe all of it’s wondrous benefits. Unfortunately, that’s not quite how it works 100% of the time, and it’s really just not surprising that this horse is bucking now. You did nothing to address the cause of his evasions, you just gave him another way to evade.
We’re seeing more and more cervical spine problems in our horses, probably because veterinary medicine has gotten better about FINDING them. It often presents as a weird “the horse is lame and we can’t figure out why” sort of deal. My own horse presented all the world like a hock horse, but tapping the hocks didn’t help, so we kept looking and sent her to a bone scan. The neck lit up, the neuro exam was slightly abnormal (and took a talented vet versed in neuro stuff to see) and the horse improved for a short time with injections. She’s now retired. But a neuro exam performed by someone who knows what to look for could be very useful for your horse, and it’s concerning that your many vets haven’t ever suggested that.
Vitamin e and selenium deficiencies can manifest in all sort of odd ways, including lameness. Depending on where you are in the country, selenium deficiency may be very common. If you tell us where you are, we can help identify how likely that is. Selenium should not be supplemented without a blood test, because an overdose can be deadly in a really ugly way. Vitamin e is one of the first things to degrade in cut hay and horses that aren’t on a significant amount of good pasture every day probably need a vitamin e supplement. Is he on one? Vitamin e also plays a roll in neuro function.
Lyme disease is a total bear on causing odd, shifting lameness. It’s hard to pin down and can be chronic. It’s more common in certain areas of the country. Where are you?
EPM is a neurological parasite that invades the brain and spinal column and causes neurological deficit and eventually death. Once again, common in some areas of the country and not others.
PSSM is a muscle disease that can cause muscle pain and fatigue. It’s effects can often be largely mitigated with the correct diet. You haven’t told us what this horse eats.
A full lameness workup at a large referral hospital is still the best next step, IMO. Based on what you’ve shared, your vets have missed a whole lot with this horse. Get to some experts. Tell them how this horse acts. Request a lameness workup, a neuro exam, and some bloodwork.
Since your trainer is now stumped, find another one. A really good dressage trainer would be helpful, or, if you need to stick with a H/J person, one with a really solid background in dressage. If you share where you are, people here can help you find one.
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Low selenium, is my first thought. If his selenium is too low, it leads to muscle problems, and this can cause bucking, as well as stiffness, and bolting. I can’t believe all these vets didn’t do a neuro exam or blood work. Sounds like you need some new vets!
You need to get baseline blood work on this horse. If something is off in his blood work, it might indicate that he has an infection, his cancer is taking over his body, his kidneys have a problem, some micro nutrients are off…all which could lead to bucking.
BUT, the fact that the horse was a bolter before you got him and has now become a bucker, screams pain to me. Pain that has been exacerbated by the way he is being ridden, and how he’s been pushed way to far in such a short period of time.
Did you xray his stifles yet?
Can you post before conformation pics and pics of what he looks like now?
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This is why we need a timeline from you. Your story and self presentation keeps changing.
You bought this horse less than a year ago, under muscled with poor form under saddle. From your posts there is no change of trainer mentioned. You dont say, he started bucking so we went to a different trainer and he still bucks.
No horse passes a PPE with flying colors. All PPE note areas of concern and the question is, can horse function in intended job?
Under $10,000 is cheap for hunterland.
So if you did a full PPE with a vet, what were the findings on the rads? What did vet say about melanomas? On a 15 year old horse there will be some ares of concern. What were they?
OP, I read your posts as reflecting a lack of experience at this end of horse care because I have read so many posts here from trainers and accomplished ammies and breeders.
They tend to set out a clear timeline of relevant facts, report the vet findings and treatment accurately, and show a systematic approach to the problem. They also tend to notice problems sooner and are able to evaluate changes in gait and stride that don’t quite make the grade as lameness, yet.
They also post rads and videos for comments.
OP, we have no clear timeline. Just I bought cheap older rundown horse for my kid, now that it’s in work he’s bucking, tell me its behavioral because I don’t want any more vet bills?
Also the more experienced horse people don’t get defensive when they are asked for clarification and keep their stories consistent.
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well that’s terrifying, it’s in that location but a bit smaller, wouldn’t this affect how he normally is too tho? like please correct me if i’m wrong but then wouldn’t be acting weird in like the walk or in his stall?
Hmm… Maybe upload to YouTube and post a link? Might work.
I live on the east coast so can’t help much 
Hopefully some Californian COTHers have some suggestions for drs/trainers.
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California is a big place, but Martinelli is a very good diagnostician.
http://www.californiaequineorthopedics.com/
Our California posters can help with more recommendations for vets and trainers. If you share the general area of the state you’re in, that would help.
For photos, upload to imgur or another platform and link here. Videos can go to youtube.
From my understanding of PPE, if the vet needs to block a nerve, he’s trying to figure out where in the leg the lameness is. You don’t block a horse that flexes sound.
So the vet found pain in the PPE. What did the vet say about the source, nature, and prognosis of this pain?
Now we have the information that the horse began bucking when they started asking him to canter under saddle. So he hadn’t been cantered for the first 8 months? OK. Anyhow, bucking when asked to canter on an older dead broke horse is a sure sign of pain.
On a very young horse, it can be a sign of imbalance or exuberance.
In a broke older horse its pain.
My guess why he got moved on out of the lesson program. Being sold out of a lesson program is actually an important point. Typically a good lesson program does not sell its functional lesson horses because they are worth more earning fees in the program than sold on at market value. Older lesson horses get sold cheap when they can’t keep up with the workload.
And honestly many show horse trainers aren’t that sophisticated at diagnosing or dealing with long term pain issues. They expect their clients to buy sound horses, and if the horses break down in training, to replace them. Or they are oblivious to subtle signs and keep working crocked horses.
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I think you mean “ewe” neck. 
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IMHO what we’ve got here is a person who knows absolutely nothing about horses, who wanted a horse for their daughter to ride. So naturally they’re in a hurry for the horse to get with their program, which consists of jumping.
I’m still having trouble with the idea that they started riding this horse so soon after getting him, and that they started jumping him while his muscles were still “building up.”
But again, that’s lack of horsemanship. How do I know the OP doesn’t know about horses? “U neck,” for one. A knowledgeable horse person would know about ewe neck. For another, the OP doesn’t even know what meds her/his horse is on. “Some white powder that smells sweet.” Please. I bet OP knows the names of all the meds her daughter has ever been on, for any illness/condition.
This is someone who’s putting all their ignorant trust into 3 vets, trusting whatever those vets tell her, yet I bet dollars to doughnuts she doesn’t put that sort of blind faith into her daughter’s pediatrician/gynecologist (depending on daughter’s age).
There’s nothing bad about ignorance – it’s something that can be corrected. What is bad is the attitude that "I don’t know how to ‘fix’ this horse so I’m trusting my vets and I’m asking online strangers but I don’t trust them because they don’t have magickal DVM degrees as part of their online IDs).
This horse sounds like one a relative of mine bought for their child. Relative knew nothing about horses and didn’t read up on them even when given a PC manual. Put blind faith in a rip-off-artist trainer but fortunately had good vets and farriers. This horse lucked out because he had not been loved on in a reallly really long time, and his new family loved on him and he started filling out and looking good and responding to the love. But all that love didn’t help his arthritis or navicular or other teenage issues (he was 17 at the time).
OP, I wish you all the best with your horse. I also wish you would really listen to the people here who are trying to help you. But you’ve got to help them help you. So just give to the bit a bit, and open up. For the sake of your horse and your daughter. 
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Sounds like the horse got shuttled around a lot as a trail and ranch horse too before becoming a lesson horse. Also OP mentions in off topic forum that he always wrings his tail and humps back before bucking. The poor guy is in pain 
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Please
Well put.
Not knowing things is not wrong and not something to be defensive about.
If you get defensive then you don’t learn anything, and at that point you are wilfully ignorant. And people stop being helpful (in real life too) because you obviously don’t want to learn.
Being wilfully ignorant also makes it hard to evaluate the advice you are given, and hard to evaluate your service providers (trainer, vet).
It also makes you much more likely to go with the service providers that tell you what you want to hear, not the truth.
Knowing about horses is a lifetime experience and even then you get surprises.
And I don’t think anyone who has kept horses only in full board has the depth of understanding of someone who has done self board or has their own farm. Horse care is learned hands on.
And us one horse at a time ammies don’t have the range of experience of pros who have herds, either trainers or breeders.
Our available experience limits our knowledge, which can however be supplemented by selective reading and careful attention to discussions with vets and trainers.
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yeah i’ll try but it says the picture is invalid
(this was taken from your other post in Off Topic)
Well…this diet alone might be a huge part of your problem. It is lacking in balanced and necessary nutrients. The biggest thing missing from this diet is SELENIUM! It would not surprise me one bit if your horse is selenium deficient.
Vitamin E might also be lacking. Flax contains E, but no idea how much you’re feeding and if you’re grinding that flax so it will release nutrients. Sunflower seeds contain E.
Why no multiple vitamin for this horse, but he gets sunflower seeds? I didn’t realize some people still feed BOSS.
Do you mean 10 lbs bermuda, not 10 g’s (grams)?
You might get lucky and find that all of his problems were caused by lack of nutrients in his diet, specifically selenium. In the scope of things and all the money you’ve spent so far trying to solve this problem, a selenium test is a tiny drop in the bucket!
If this was my horse, I’d run out and immediately get this horse tested for selenium!
Make sure it’s the right file type. The file might also be too large to upload. You’ll have to reduce the size, if that’s the case.
I’m not sure where this quote came from–was it edited out?–but this is in no way shape or form a complete diet. Horses need vitamins and minerals and a certain amount of protein to be healthy and he’s absolutely NOT getting all he needs from this. Most horses out there are on a commercial fortified feed for this reason–it gives them what they need to be healthy. Why have you created your own diet for this horse instead of feeding him something like a ration balancer or a quality commercial feed like Triple Crown Senior?
While he very well might be selenium deficient–you’ve never tested the horse, but have you ever tested the hay? Where does his hay come from?–please, please don’t add a selenium supplement without a blood test. This is really, really important. If his hay is grown in a selenium rich area of the country, he might have PLENTY of selenium in his diet and not need any more, and his issues are due to something else. Adding a selenium supplement to a horse that’s not deficient can kill them.
It’s safe to add vitamin e. This is a good one. You can add that right now.
But it would also really benefit this horse to go on something that would actually provide some real nutrition. A ration balancer is probably enough since it sounds like he’s maintaining fine without a whole lot of extra calories. This is one. A pound and a half to two pounds a day is all he needs. You can keep the flax and the farriers formula and add the vitamin e, if you want. Sunflower seeds are high in omega 6 and will contribute to inflammation–that’s not helping you.
Is that supposed to be pounds of hay? 10# am 10# pm? Does he eat all of that and then stand around without any hay? Will he eat more? If his belly is bothering him, keeping hay in front of him ALL the time will help a lot.
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