Why doesn’t he “like” to do some things? Because they are against his religion? He doesn’t “like” to do things that HURT.
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Who knows? Without someone who knows what they’re looking for seeing the horse? I don’t know. That is why I suggested a neuro exam. And even if he’s not neuro, that location can be really troublesome for the horse.
As someone mentioned above, there are a few things you can do now with melanomas that actually work. The fact that your vet(s) don’t know that is concerning. No place is a good place for a melanoma, but people get really worried when they are in the parotid area. For some reason those are really aggressive and hard on the horse. The fact that your vet(s) don’t know that either is really concerning.
Some discussions on this board about melanoma:
This is all about my horse, who did not have a parotid melanoma, but has been on Oncept for 5 years for his other melanomas:
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f…ments-post-162
And this is about a horse in New Zealand that has a parotid melanoma and is also on Oncept:
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f…-with-melanoma
As many many people have encouraged you already, you need to decide whether you are going to take this horse to a university vet clinic or other big clinic and get to the bottom of all his issues or if you are going to cut your losses and retire him. I wish you the best.
ETA: here’s the reason people are worried about parotid melanomas:
- Physical incorporation of nerves within the guttural pouch may cause neurologic problems.
- [B]Prognosis[/B]: guarded, although most cause no significant clinical signs. Massive expansion may limit neck movement but only very rarely any pharyngeal obstruction. A few cases are severe and involve the guttural pouch and then can cause secondary effects including neurologic deficits in the vagus, hypoglossal and glossopharyngeal nerves (causing pharyngeal/laryngeal dysfunction), epistaxis, and in the sympathetic trunk (causing Horner's syndrome Neurology: Horner's syndrome). Obstructions of the internal auditive tube can occur with consequent vestibular syndromes.
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It came from the OP’s other post over in Off Topic, see below. Yep, that’s why I posted it. This is an awful diet! My first post on this thread was that I thought this sounded like possible low selenium. Then I saw on the other post what she feeds her horse, and looks like I could be right about potential low selenium.
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This is an Appendix Quarter Horse. Being a Quarter Horse could also be connected to his problems, aside from the obvious potential nutritional deficiencies. There are some genetic mutations in QH’s that cause muscle and pain problems. What are his bloodlines? He could be heterozygous for HYPP, which could contribute to his problems. Is Impressive anywhere in his bloodlines? Impressive was a HYPP carrier. Another possibility is PSSM, polysaccaride storage myopathy, is found in about 10% of QH’s. The signs are stiffness, muscle pain, and cramping, all of which can turn into bucking. These are the top AQHA genetic disorders that I think of first, but there are several others.
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I missed the part about melanomas. Full stop. Get those checked by a specialist / university hospital right away. They can indeed cause a host of internal issues & sounds like they are already widespread. There are treatment options.
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The fact that your vet thinks melanomas are nothing to worry about scares the crap out of me. The fact that your horse has melanomas in his mouth and neck and your vet isn’t worried about them scares me even more.
How does he eat? Does he do a lot of dribbling? Eat more on one side than the other? Quid his hay and grass? Do you soak his hay and grain? If so, it could be an indication that at least one of those tumors is starting to hurt him. Even if not, it doesn’t mean that he hasn’t got one right where the bit rests. He needs evaluated by a specialist.
Also, it’s entirely possible that your saddle doesn’t fit. Not all saddle fitters know what they’re doing. Or it may have fit at the time, but with work, is now too narrow or needs reflocked. Also, have you checked the tree to be sure it’s not broken?
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You asked what can happen to a horse who is 100% sound one day and not the next. The answer is anything. He could have fallen over in the paddock and pulled a muscle. If it was muddy he could have done the splits and pulled another muscle.
That is only 2 things that could have happened which you see nothing. The first can cause a pulled muscled in the chest which means it hurts to pick up the front legs.
The second if the splits were with the hind feet can cause pain in there and with compensation also hurt the chest.
They are horses. They can hurt themselves any second of the day. Sigh!
I wonder how much of the problem here is the lack of history. OP has a hard time communicating with us about what’s been done with this horse, what condition he’s in, how he’s been trained, what’s been ruled out and how with the vets, even the results of the PPE. Talking the language is important.
@pheevden2 do you want help to put together a solid history on this horse that you can take to your next vet appointment? We can help you with that. No vet ever said “this is too much info.” They only get to see the horse for a few hours, so the more you can tell them, the better. In addition to the results from the vet–not what you remember, or your impressions, but the actual case file and notes from all of the appointments, including the radiographs–you want to include as much of the background as you can. It sounds like you know quite a lot about this horse and his history, which is great. You’ll want to include the history you’ve had with him, too, including who you’ve been training with, how that’s gone, any show results (division, height, type of show, placing, etc), when and why you changed trainers, what the new trainer changed and how the horse responded. His living arrangements are also important. Stall, turnout, how he’s fed (and why) how he gained weight, what his condition score was (henneke scale) and what you did to change that. Include any maintenance he needed as a school horse or in his previous homes, along with any lameness or training issues he had back then. You can also note if you’ve seen any changes in his melanomas since you’ve had him. Basically you want to create a document that includes everything you know about this horse, and everything your trainer knows about this horse, and everything that the vets who have seen him know about him.
We can help you sculpt all this if you want. Then you can show it to your trainer and get her input as well. That will really help the vets figure out what’s going on with your horse. You’ll need to get in touch with all the vets who have seen him for copies of his file and any imaging that’s been done. That would be a good place to start.
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Oh. So this is you, too? https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f…orting-a-horse
It looks like Martinelli might be doable for you then, especially if you’re on the south side of the city?
Here’s a thread about h/j trainers: https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/hunter-jumper/322732-hunter-jumper-barns-around-los-angeles-update
Here’s some dressage info: https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/dressage/221865-los-angeles-area-dressage-barns
Here’s a thread about vets: https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/horse-care/44847-top-lameness-vets-in-california
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OP, there is a lot of good advice here, but I did have one question:
What are you using to treat the ulcers?
I’m asking because not all ulcer treatments are created equal. There are some treatments now that target both hindgut and stomach ulcers that might be worth looking into since bucking is often associated with hindgut uclers.
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I’m going to be the ogre here. If I read correctly this horse is supposed to be for your daughter. There’s no way I’d ever let my daughter back on that horse. Whether it’s pain or behavioral doesn’t matter. He’s bucked repeatedly with different riders. Even if you figure out and think you’ve fixed the problem there’s no way I’d ever trust that horse to take care of my daughter because you never know what will make him blow at an inopportune time. Keep him as a pet, a “walk” trail horse for yourself, sell him, give him away or euthanize him. But buy a nice safe horse for your daughter.
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Agreed.
Personally I think the OP is the daughter.
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Yup.
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…no? definitely the mother?
which is also why i do not know about a lot of things, my daughter knows more about it then I do. I personally don’t ride horses
don’t think i asked about this! thanks though
Ok so the SI was checked, but how? Usually involves a rectal ultrasound. Or bone scan. Why did he have blocks done at the PPE? What part of the spine was images? You said T14-17 one time then said you didn’t know.
As an appendix, might he also have front feet problems? Pads just from one short trim that are still on despite that trim having grown out?! Could he have navicular problems? Were the front feet part of what was blocked? How much bute did he get? For how long? How much previcox? For how long? How long has he been on this ulcer med? Is it compounded omeprazole? Have you ever scoped his stomach? Ever fed anything to support the hind gut?
And on top of that he is spooky and buddy sour and lacks confidence and eats a very unbalanced diet.
None of this history sounds “perfect” to me. There is nothing wrong with not knowing a lot about nutrition or veterinary medicine or even training. However, read your vet reports and invoices. Read the PPE report. And at least educate yourself on what actually has been done. Give that information to all of your service providers (trainer, farrier, whoever manages his food, vets).
I had a client who is a corporate executive, very smart, very invested in her horses. But sometimes it was difficult for her to translate what the vets saw/did because she just had a hard time with remembering drugs and anatomy and she was too busy drinking from the fire hose for her job. That is fine. It would make it super difficult for her to ask for advice here, same as you are running into problems with this conversation. It doesn’t mean you don’t care or are dumb or don’t know how to ride or whatever. It doesn’t. But we can’t help you without the information. I’d tell my client just to forward the vet reports to me if I couldn’t be present. That way I’d get the full story. Not that she was trying to hide anything. But without all the info it was hard to support the horses from a training perspective.
Now we don’t need to see your bills on the internet, but you could say on X date, vet did these things, prescribed these drugs, ordered these tests, made these remarks about horse’s physical condition, movement, lameness, flexions, etc. If you don’t know what some of the stuff means, no problem. We can help translate. It’s not like we all magically know all this. We have been there done that and learned bits and pieces along the way.
It is up to you to keep track of all the details and to know the details. So you can communicate and advocate for your horse.
As far as melanoma, my pony had many, mostly internal. He lived to be almost 30. They didn’t affect his performance career. But he didn’t have any in his mouth or on his throat. It is true that gray horse melanoma is not like melanoma for humans. But that doesn’t mean they can’t ever cause any problems. If you had tumors in your mouth, even benign ones, do you think you’d feel normal?
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Hello everybody.
tomorrow a chiropractor is coming out to take a look at his back ect.
then a vet will also be coming out and taking his bloodwork.
will keep you all updated
any suggestions for a change in diet?? i have no idea what a horse should need supplement wise. yes 10 lbs sorry. he also gets grazed every few days.
what are the pros and cons of what he’s eating now? (hay pellets, sunflower seeds, electrolytes, flaxseed that’s grounded, farriers formula)
what should we give him or not give him that he can have regardless for vitamins and. health.
we just fed him what he already was getting when we bought him, which they told us he had gotten most of his life
I reiterate, get your daughter a SAFE horse.
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In the other thread, OP says the farrier put pads on the horse’s hooves a few months ago.
Why? Pads are usually used when the horse is in pain from coffin bones rotation/ thin soles. Why did the farrier do this? What did he tell you was wrong with the horse? Founder, navicular, what?
Refusing to turn on forehand suggests pain in front feet.
OP says in other thread this 15 year old schoolie is a “hunter prospect” because he can free jump 4 feet without training.
Lots of them can do this. You don’t buy a never jumped 15 year old horse and expect to get to the 4 feet jumps with him. Thats the age jumpers slowing down.
Anyhow the other thread is making the same points as this one: he is in pain.
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