OP: you say you don’t ride horses but earlier in the thread you stated:
So which is it?
It is apparent from this thread that you are new to horse care. That’s not a bad thing, everyone starts somewhere. I’m glad you are getting the vet out for bloodwork. I would highly recommend a specialist look at the melanomas. A bone scan would also probably be pretty revealing.
I would be curious to see the vets write-up for the PPE.
Your vet should be able to recommend a diet plan for your horses needs. But 10lbs 2x a day of hay is not enough especially if he is only getting out to graze once every few days.
If your trainer sees nothing wrong with the diet your horse is on, you need a new trainer.
Honestly, if it were me, I would cut my losses and retire the horse. Continuing to push him when he is screaming that he is in pain somewhere is going to result in someone getting hurt.
he’s going to see a chiropractor to see if he’s sore somewhere, which according to this thread he definitely is.
also, i’m posting this in concern for my daughter, she has no idea i am doing this but it’s out of concern so she doesn’t fall off because at this point i’m scared for her.
what kinds of things are in vitamin e? what’s boss??
I don’t understand this statement: “vets have said he’s in perfect health, teeth look like he’s 7”… Is he 15 or is he 7? It’s not as though horses brush. There are changes in a horse’s teeth that are a natural part of the aging process and although not an exact science, if someone said that a 15 year old horse has teeth that look like they belong to a 7 year old horse, that is not indicative of good health, it just means whoever made the statement doesn’t know what they are talking about.
I certainly can’t even hazard a guess as to what is wrong but I do believe the scope of the diagnostics, saddle fit, farrier work, three veterinarians, various trainers etc. has been overstated. If the behavior is as stated, the horse is in pain and I can’t see three vets missing that. I’ve also noticed quite a bit of conflicting information. Tangled webs and all that.
Exactly! That statement does not make any sense. There is no way that a 15 year old horse’s teeth can look anything like a 7 year old horse’s teeth. The Galvayne’s Groove first appears at age 10 and goes away at age 30. All horses get them. If a “15 year old horse” does not have a Galvayne’s Groove (“looks like a 7 year old horse”), then the horse is not 15 years old.
OP, forgive me if I missed this. Have you taken him to a qualified equine hospital for a bone scan? After our local vet radiographed and injected everything he thought possible, we finally hauled our horse to the nearest equine hospital for the bone scan. We found our diagnosis with that.
Just read that you’ve got a chiropractor coming out. My advice would be to quit wasting money trying this and that and get this horse to an equine practice for a bone scan and possibly firer diagnostics.
So you’ve posted this out of concern for your daughter so she doesn’t fall off?? People on the internet are supposed to help your daughter not fall off? How?
So far you’ve taken excessive short cuts with this horse, his training, his nutrition, and with his diagnostics. You admit you don’t know much at all about horses, yet you haven’t wanted to take anyone’s very sound and very experienced advice. So you’re taking another short cut by having a chiropractor see your horse? A chiropractor is not going to be able to diagnose what is wrong with your horse! He is not a vet. He does not do lameness exams, x-rays, ultrasounds, blood work, or much of anything except palpate your horse and maybe adjust him.
If you are so concerned for your daughter falling off, why are you delaying thorough diagnostics on your horse?
No vet would look at a 15 year old horses teeth and say, “Well, these teeth look like a 7 year olds teeth!” unless the horse is actually 7. It makes no sense.
Why do people go directly to the chiropractor?! Use that money and go to the clinic already. Or to a better specialist. I do have a vet that is also a chiropractor, and I’d trust him, but I know his capabilities are limited as a mobile vet. Also, are all chiropractors vets in America? I don’t know the qualifications there.
Here some people will call the “osteopathie” and pay for several visits on a “sore” horse that accomplish…nothing aside from lining a person with a few months of training and questionable skills pockets. Call a damn vet that has a good reputation in this area (lameness).
I hate expensive clinic bills, I do, but over the years its proven more cost effective to go there. They have more resources. I drop the horse off for a few days (if that), and leave with a plan instead of various vets coming back and forth. There is just more access to various resources/specialities/equipment and more of a one stop shop, if you will.
BOSS is black oil sunflower seeds. That is what you said you are feeding.
So I’m really confused. Horse is at a boarding barn under care of a trainer or horse is in your backyard being fed whatever?
I’m also curious that you are feeding Bermuda hay in California. I associated it with the southeast.
Is your daughter an adult or a child?
Get a copy of Julie Gettys Feed Your Horse Like a Horse.
Honestly I too am beginning to wonder if this thread is legitimate. The OP has made major contradictions in staying the general situation, does not seem able to read and process information and questions, changes or adds details constantly (horse is sound vs horse had hock injections and pads. Horse was on high calorie diet then changed to maintenance diet vs horse has continued on same diet from old barn. Horse PPE clean vs vet had to block joints during PPE), and lacks a knowledge base not just about horses but about nutrition generally.
Honestly the kindest assumption I can make about this thread is that it’s a 14 year old without a horse spinning us along.
I think this thread is legitimate except we’re talking with the daughter; they got a broken down lesson horse that has issues as demonstrated by the blocking during the PPE, and the parents aren’t looking to invest much more money or buy a new horse. The details of the vet exams don’t make sense; so it is possible some of these things were told to her and “done” by the former owner and/or current trainer. Like “horse was ok but stiff during lameness exam so we injected stifles.” As if that’s a normal thing.
The OP has written all along as though she were the rider, even though she was the “mother” who doesn’t ride horses but somehow knows how a Pessoa system works.
This exact thread comes up a couple of time a year; usually the teenage rider is trying to glean some information to try to turn around the horse that really isn’t suitable. Generally it involves a trainer that has told the teenager they are super talented and convinces them to buy a horse that someone else doesn’t want.
Here’s my best bit of advice to the OP and/or the mother/kid: The best investment you can make is the horse. This one is a long term project for a qualified pro - at best. It is possible that a magic bullet will be found and you will have a sound horse…but it’s far more likely that there are real issues that will prevent him being used the way you want to - and his only option is to try to buck you off.
I would 1) stop riding the horse or stop riding beyond walk/trot; 2) get a qualified vet to do a real lameness eval - especially hocks, back and stifles. 3) be prepared to euthanize or retire this horse
Stop wasting your money on a chiropractor and take the horse to a lameness specialist for a workup. You’re in an area with A PLETHORA of very talented people. There is NO EXCUSE to not get a proper evaluation of this horse. It will cost some money, but not nearly as much as exporting this horse.
It appears you’re also just AWASH with talented trainers. Do you actually have a trainer? The slap dash approach to how this horse is fed, dewormed and vetted suggests that perhaps you do not. If you do, and your trainer has signed off on all this, that’s really rather terrifying, and you need someone else. Pronto.
An adult does not ask the question “what is vitamin e?” It has been explained several times here why it’s important.
You’re FEEDING boss. You told us you were feeding sunflower seeds. Do you know why you’re feeding sunflower seeds? What do they contribute to the diet?
What, exactly, are you hoping to get out of this thread?
To Mom, if she’s reading: please get this horse to an equine referral center for a full lameness exam. There’s a post in the last page or so with a link to several suggestions in your area. That post also has several links to trainer suggestions. Your new trainer can reassess the diet and deworming, because it’s all way off track.
By 50/50 pellets do you mean alfalfa and grass mix? If so, at least he is getting some protein, but probably not enough. And his vitamin / mineral intake is lacking since he is on primarily a hay diet.
By 50/50 pellets do you mean alfalfa and grass mix? If so, at least he is getting some protein, but probably not enough. And his vitamin / mineral intake is lacking since he is on primarily a hay diet.
How long does it take him to eat the hay? If he is going hours without hay at any time, then that will not help the ulcer problem. Do you have access to alfalfa hay?
yeah, he’s been/being treated for ulcers, and has been since we got him. he’s also seen a chiropractor and had his hocks injected…honestly we’ve checked every single physical thing we could thing of, including saddle fit and diet, none of it has changed his behavior
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he’s going to see a chiropractor to see if he’s sore somewhere, which according to this thread he definitely is.
also, i’m posting this in concern for my daughter, she has no idea i am doing this but it’s out of concern so she doesn’t fall off because at this point i’m scared for her.
LOTS of inconsistencies and contradictions from the OP. I agree it sounds like a kid who is not able to answer fully or communicate effectively, at least here on a written forum.
Regardless, there’s a COTH consensus (fairly rare!) that this horse is clearly in pain. OP, many of the people responding to you with lengthy, thoughtful replies have plenty of years of experience and some may be well-regarded professionals who are being generous with their time to help your work out what’s going on with your horse and to help prevent you/your daughter from being injured.
You do seem to be taking the advice seriously, but please realize that if for whatever reason you aren’t able to work out what’s causing the pain and/or can’t work this out, this horse may never be safe to ride. If you decide that the horse will not be suitable for your family, please do not sell him on without full disclosure of his issues and what you’ve tried to remedy the problem. In all likelihood, if it does come to that, this horse would not be saleable except as a pasture companion only, given that he wasn’t priced as an extremely high-value horse when you got him when he was ostensibly sound. If you can’t work out the pain issue or can’t alleviate it sufficiently, he may need to be retired with you or, rather than chancing that he ultimately ends up at a slaughterhouse, euthanized. You do have a number of avenues to explore before it comes to that, but please bear in mind that there are fates far worse than death by vet’s injection for horses (any age – 7? 15?) in pain, with a dangerous bucking habit.
Just adding some cautions: The last thing on earth I would recommend for a horse with undiagnosed physical issues is a chiropractor. It can worsen whatever is occurring, if not create further problems.
Absolutely no selenium supplementation without blood work. Selenium toxicity in Calif has been a thing since the 1970’s. Even the foxhounds suffer from it, from drinking out of irrigation ditches.
IMHO an aged arthritic horse should be living outside, not in a stall. If he is indeed from Montana, trust me, he can handle it.
