Good for you, quietann 
[QUOTE=JB;4218179]
Well, I for one don’t want my horse leaving town the first/next time a plastic bag blows by us at a show 
Honestly, some of you “normal” people could learn a lot from the desensitization stuff that NH folks, and Western folks, do to their horses. Sure, one can take it too far, and some do, but I really just laugh at people on this forum and the H/J forum who are so peeved at what someone else is doing that causes THEIR horse to get upset. It’s YOUR job to teach your horse to behave when spooked. You cannot ever show him everything that he’ll ever encounter, but you can expose him to a lot of different things that are easy to do at your house/barn that can teach him the proper response.[/QUOTE]
I’m not at all bothered by people who work to desensitize their horses to things that might spook them. Actually, I wish more people would do that, rather than trying to coddle and bubble-wrap their horses and protect them from anything that could possibly frighten them.
I don’t consider it “natural” horsemanship to want to expose a horse to as many different things as possible. . .I consider it good horsemanship, and it’s something all horse owners should work towards, whether they plan to show or simply ride for pleasure.
However, and I think that what the OP is getting at, DON’T try to sermonize and preach
Don’t walk into my tack room, point out a Simple Boot, and declare it a Davis medicine boot, ideal for soaking a quarter crack.
Don’t walk into my tack room, bypass the two beautiful, custom-made western saddles with rich, wonderful leather, hand-tooling, and overall fabulosity…and point out the dried up old Bighorn as the best saddle in the barn. Maybe the slick swells threw them off, I dunno
Don’t declare rope halters as dangeous things to ever, ever EVER tie a horse with…while said tied horse nods off to sleep on a highline. Because he knows how to tie. And your idiot horse is banging the crap out of your trailer with her bullsnap lead rope.
Don’t take your shoes off to ride bareback, to get a better feel, then grab those reins up in a wad like driving lines.
Don’t dismount and neglect to feed that pony some slack, so when you land and your hands jar against his body- you nearly jerk him into a rear. Thanks for jabbing him in the mouth, whilst declaring ‘my fault my fault’ NSS, we got that.
Just shut up and watch. SHUT UP and learn. The horses know who’s a leader, the good horsemen recognize and glean what they can from ALL good sources, whether in a top hat and shad or Justins and jeans.
:lol:
I’m afraid there are no instruction manuals or classes for passive psyche intimidation.
Some things a person is just born with.
JB - The problem I have with Parelli is this:
He has brainwashed people into believing that HIS way and HIS methods are the ONLY way to handle horses. He bashes other trainers and riding styles, and that lacks class.
Any true horsemen will tell you that there is always an exception to the rule. That ONE method will not work for ALL horses.
In reference to snaps. A bullsnap opens outward, you cannot open it without thumbs. A carabineer will open if something is pressed agent it. Like the back of a tendon. Sure, that incident was a freak accident, but it happened at HIS Ocala facility, years ago, and he has not changed the equipment.
For the record, I don’t have any problem with NH in general. My warmblood has been “sacked out”, he ties, and I have my own games that I play with him.
In the end, I just don’t like Parelli “the man”.
I sympathize with you. I never really paid attention to the NH people that used to board at a facility where I boarded, until they decided it was a good idea to “train” my horse.
One overly helpful woman decided it was very helpful of her to “train” my horse while I was away on vacation. I never asked her to take my horse out… Well, she took my 17 y/o Dutch rescue gelding, missing one eye no less… out in the evenings after everyone had left the barn and started playing the games with him. By the time I got back from vacation my horse was head-shy. Guess she thought teaching him games in a STUD CHAIN was a fantastic idea headdesk.
She was so proud of herself and told me ALL about it. I was peeved. Where did she think that teaching a half-blind horse these games with a stud chain was a good idea. I have no problem with NH if you keep it to yourself… she was another example of someone who had learned it from videos and watching a clinic. Ugh.
[QUOTE=Equestryn;4214748]
Oh and the boarder comments on how my horse hasn’t been put through the seven games so I shouldn’t be sitting on him at all! Oh, and my horse is a paint and has that traditional “crazy eye” due to the white scelera (sp?) around his eye and the guy says “Clinton Anderson would tell you to sell this horse immediately, he’s got the wild eye, he’ll never be a good horse.”
Wow, this is longer than I thought it’d be. Sorry! Thanks to those of you who continued to the end…
I definately feel better now.[/QUOTE]
What would they do with my sweet as pie, in your pocket 2 yr old App??? He’s got two crazy eyes!!! Dumb, people are just dumb.
I cannot disagree with you here. However, that does not mean that all PNH followers are the same way.
In reference to snaps. A bullsnap opens outward, you cannot open it without thumbs. A carabineer will open if something is pressed agent it. Like the back of a tendon. Sure, that incident was a freak accident, but it happened at HIS Ocala facility, years ago, and he has not changed the equipment.
Should hanging feed bucket makers change their design because horses have gotten legs caught between the bucket and the wall and broken their leg? Should blanket makers make breakaway leg and belly straps because horses have gotten their (or their foals) legs caught in them? The point is that horses get hurt on all sorts of things. They were born looking for ways to get hurt. Pat is not the only one who uses a carabiner snap. If you don’t like a piece of equipment because of a particular incident, nobody says you have to use it.
Uh oh. I’m in trouble!
[QUOTE=Mr. Jig;4219070]
What would they do with my sweet as pie, in your pocket 2 yr old App??? He’s got two crazy eyes!!! Dumb, people are just dumb.[/QUOTE]
I have 3 Appy’s with those eyes! All full brothers. Granted the oldest one is a bit of a nutcase, but he has a huge heart and tries to get over his fear which is from a somewhat abusive history.
The youngest one is smart as they come…too smart and he gets into trouble.
The middle one is a real gentleman. Oh sure, he’s tried to buck me off on a rare occasion…throws mini-rear temper tantrums undersaddle when he thinks we are supposed to go somewhere but I’m insisting that he stand still (also on rare occasion) BUT he knows that I’m an experienced rider who can handle such things. My mom gets on (she’s pretty much a beginner…can handle herself, but is mostly content to just walk), and he’s a totally different horse. He will stand still while she climbs aboard, stands still whenever she needs him to, never places a wrong step. On their first outting to Gettysburg to ride the battlefields, he was the brave one to cross a bridge when the “highly trained show horses” would not. He was the only one not to go bonkers when cannonfire erupted just over the hill. Does he sound crazy?
I think the white eyes are so smart horses can roll their eyes at you when they think you are being a complete moron. :lol:
OP, anybody who is preaching that their way is the TRUE or right way would piss me off as well.
That said I’ve learned a lot from some people who would fit the label “NH” and I wouldn’t put Chris Cox into the same category as Parelli (who’s wife I especially find terribly annoying). I’ve also recently observed a man who learned his trade from Buck Brannaman and I was pretty interested in what he had to say and show me too (gadget free no less). He was a total cowboy (I mean he actually goes to ranches for long stretches, stays outside overnight, and works cattle). I appreciate someone who practices what they preach
I agree with some of what Casaer Milan has to say as well. The problem is the people watching his show go right to one little thing they saw him do (even though the disclaimer tells them to get professional help) and get into trouble because they don’t want to follow the steps he sets out 1. Exercise 2. Discipline 3. Affection. They just want the instant gratification of being in control and lack the self discipline and awareness to address the problem (usually themselves) on their own.
Most of these guys have some bit of truth to their methods–for example some desensitizing is a pretty good idea for every horse. Or dogs need exercise. And they all do a fabulous job of selling gadgets!!
[QUOTE=cgray0983;4219042]
I sympathize with you. I never really paid attention to the NH people that used to board at a facility where I boarded, until they decided it was a good idea to “train” my horse.
One overly helpful woman decided it was very helpful of her to “train” my horse while I was away on vacation. I never asked her to take my horse out… Well, she took my 17 y/o Dutch rescue gelding, missing one eye no less… out in the evenings after everyone had left the barn and started playing the games with him. By the time I got back from vacation my horse was head-shy. Guess she thought teaching him games in a STUD CHAIN was a fantastic idea headdesk.
She was so proud of herself and told me ALL about it. I was peeved. Where did she think that teaching a half-blind horse these games with a stud chain was a good idea. I have no problem with NH if you keep it to yourself… she was another example of someone who had learned it from videos and watching a clinic. Ugh.[/QUOTE]
Had to add. I would bring unholy WRATH down on anyone who touched my horse for “training” when I wasn’t there. Like “heads would roll” wrath.
The person who took it upon herself to ‘train’ YOUR horse when YOU were gone is basically trespassing!
And yes. . . no matter what discipline we do we can only share our views w/those who are open to listening/discussing or maybe trying it. Which is why this is a discussion forum. . .
As someone here has for a signature. . . You don’t have to go around telling everyone that you are a good horseman ---- the horse already knows!!
I have had only one encounter with a Serious Parelli Devotee, but it was entertaining. New boarders at the barn we’d been in for several years, Very Dedicated to the Games, seldom rode but did use the arenas for their stuff, which was fine, our horses didn’t care. Wave a stick with a bag on the end at them, they think “Oh Yeah Carrots!!!” because everyone knows that carrots come in plastic bags and the problem is keeping our hoofers away from their sticks :).
Anyway, for some reason the man needed to load one of the horses in their very nice van (not trailer; van). And Horse would NOT go up the ramp. He stuck his front feet on the bottom of the ramp, and just would not move. The ramp wasn’t even steep, and of course this was the same van he’d gotten into many times.
After watching (not staring, just noticing while I walked back and forth doing stuff for my own guys) for an hour, I approached slowly and asked, “Would you like some help?” He’d already done all the flip the rope, back up, move feet, etc. stuff, nothing had worked.
He said yes, he’d like some help.
So I said, well, go on up the ramp with the lead. And as he did, I simply walked into the horse from the rear quarter with my arms at about half-mast. Horse looked at me and decided the van was a better bet. And walked smartly up the the ramp and into the stall. I said nothing. I did nothing except walk toward the horse in a “determined” way. And look at him.
I will be the very first to admit that my Morgan has a serious manners deficiency in the straight-out classic sense. He will absolutely get into your space, he will snorf your butt, he will pull on a lead held by someone he doesn’t know, he will swing his head around, he will even launch himself into the air so you are flying the horse kite. But if I look at him in a certain way he Stops. Now. And chews and licks.
Maybe you can’t teach that sort of look, but I learned it, I didn’t always have it, and with a bright, assertive, energetic horse you’d better learn it!
If I have a quarrel with the NH folks it’s that they come at the relationship a bit sideways and never seem to home in on the actual issue, which is that horses are not really “trained” by sticks and flapping leads and halters and so on. Our 21 year old TB has my 11 year old Morgan perfectly trained without any of those gadgets :lol: One look and Beau melts away, finding Urgent Business Elsewhere. I learned how to manage Beau by watching Gofer.:lol: If the kid thinks that the next thing that happens is going to involve death – his – then he pays attention. And after a while you can raise one eyebrow. Beau’s silliness doesn’t bother me, and he will never be for sale so I can afford to indulge my sentimentality. When the chips are down, he behaves, so he’s not a problem for others to handle.
PS: Beau can be four feet in the air (all four feet at an altitude of four feet or more) at the end of a lead line, land, go up again, snort and prop, and never hit the end of the lead. Because he knows Mom Doesn’t Like That. And That’s Bad. But it does tell you a lot about his mental processes, doesn’t it? that he can spook and carry on and still keep in mind that he’d better not pull on Mom’s shoulder.
Those are not NH folks, those are the ones playing dress-up and really have no idea what the clothes or the makeup mean
I couldn’t care less what the NH crowd does with their horse as long as it isn’t immediately dangerous. Yeah, it’s scary to watch sometimes, but hey, it’s just natural selection at work.
What I can’t get past is the incredible persecution complex. There is a person at our barn that is “certified” at some level (via video tape). I once asked why she and other PP followers were do defensive when asked about their methods, she immediately got defensive and indicated that I didn’t understand what it was like to be odd man out. I reminded her that I came to our current barn 10 years ago, mainly a hunter jumper place, with two quarter horses and had been showing the AQHA circuit (the only one on a place of about 150 horses in that category). I also asked if anyone at our barn had ever said anything to her about her games etc. She conceded that they had not, however, she had heard from many others at PP events that was the case. Sigh!
It’s not a training program; it’s a cult.
Just a note, if a horse is advertised as “Parelli Level 2” it absolutely MUST be working under saddle. You can’t even get your Level 1 without walk-trot-canter.
It’s a common misconception…the Level 1 program only really gets to RIDING toward the middle-end. I think a lot of people give up around DVD #3. 
That’s where they are teaching the squeeze game…which is a lot of fun if you do it right.
And WTF with Carabiner snaps? The Parelli lead ropes that I have all have very solid brass snaps that you have to twist to undo. I actually really like the ropes, they are nice cotton and pretty high quality. The carrot stick on the other hand…meh. It doesn’t make enough noise for me. Give me my buggy whip any day for “circle game” and a nice Dressage whip (which is WAAAAAY lighter to carry) for ridden work.
Pat Thrasher is right on the money!!! That’s what it’s all about, doing more with less but most of us have to learn how to do it in an obvious way and then tone down the theatrics!!! Not rev up the theatrics. Moving the horse off our energy! Like when the boss mare gives a threatening look some horses move away. If they don’t move she ups the ante and makes a snake face or takes a bite. But when they move off that ‘look’ from us and the energy — that’s super!! My horses sometimes will stop doing something rude when I look at them crossly but I have to put a bit of Cesar Millan energy into it as well, and maybe make a ‘aahck’ sound and point my hand/finger towards them. Also works when they’re supposed to stand still and start to step away.
That’s what the final result should be. Not playing with sticks forever. Those are tools that apparently some people use as permanent crutches. IMO. As little as it takes but as much as necessary, then fine tune it. It’s for gaining respect/leadership/relationship and then go on and ride from the training scale! Or go trail ride.
Thanks for reading again. . . getting off the soapbox now. . .
Desensitizing - I have 2 fields next to the road. I don’t need plastic bags on a stick because plenty of trailers go by with flappy plastic hanging off of silage bales. As my arena is pretty close to the road, this comes in quite handy! I have a filly who loves the bicycle riders in their fancy clothes. Runs over to fence to watch them come by and then proceeds to follow them bucking and farting. Big hedge cutters on the back of the tractor to make their fields nice and pretty - don’t even pick their heads up anymore. And the sound they make is unreal!
I also try and get them off to new places as soon as possible even if it’s just to a friends house for a trail ride. They seem to adapt better when younger. The beach is their favorite, but I ride with clothes and a helmet!
And chances are if you go to a show here, you could end up meeting a very brightly colored gypsy caravan pulled by big scary black and white Majical Gypsy Vanners coming at you full steam ahead. No way you can really prepare for that I’m afraid!
Terri
We have aliens at our barn that beam down from the mothership and take things like hoofpicks and bell boots and horseshoes (right off their hooves!). So my horse is pretty desensitized, having been beamed up to the mothership more than a few times.
How about the attitude that 'I paid a lot of money for this knowledge and I don’t feel like ‘splainin it for free’? Yet they go on and on about their NH knowledge.
How long will it take before east meets west and it all becomes ‘horsemanship’, a melange of methods.
