[QUOTE=ponypappy;8139167]
DownYonder, Your story although interesting is a " I knew somebody". How quickly were you to not believe what was allegedly an eye witness account. I think I am getting why people do not want to come forward.[/QUOTE]
Does anyone know if Parra makes his assistants or working students sign a confidentiality agreement or some such thing?
[QUOTE=ponypappy;8139167]
DownYonder, Your story although interesting is a " I knew somebody". How quickly you were to not believe what was allegedly an eye witness account. I think I am getting why people do not want to come forward. And by the way DownYonder did you see that his sponsor and business partner (The Davis Family) just pulled out of his barn. Any comments? They must be crazy , isnāt that what normally comes out of his mouth about other previous clients. If you have such close contacts in the Parra world , do tell.[/QUOTE]
Can you not read? I have had personal experience with him. I have met him, have been to his barn in FL, have watched him give lessons, and get lessons. I put my horse in a clinic with him. I know the person who trained with him for three months, and am around on a very frequent basis with all of her horses that went to FL with her, or that were in training with him. I know the other person who trained with him in FL one winter, and then not only bought a horse from him, but moved her entire family to NJ so she could continue to train with him. So I think I might believe my own eyewitness accounts, and the accounts of people I know.
And yes, I saw that the Davisā have left him. Clients leave trainers all the time, for many various reasons.
And really, Ponypappy - you have been asked this many times before, but you have never provided a straight answer. Just what is the reason for your ongoing personal vendetta against Parra? Which of his former clients are you? Or are you a former student? What is your relationship with Trudy Miranda? Go ahead and deny it again - your continual disavowals of any actual connection to Parra are wearing thin.
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8139181]
Does anyone know if Parra makes his assistants or working students sign a confidentiality agreement or some such thing?[/QUOTE]
I have heard that he does, but it is not uncommon in the barns of many well known trainers and riders.
[QUOTE=DownYonder;8138922]
Lest anyone think he is the devil incarnate when it comes to horses, I will again mention my experiences and those of other people I know.
About three years ago, a trainer friend went to FL to ride/train in his barn for three months. She reported that she never saw a single instance of anything that remotely resembled āabuseā, nor questionable training techniques, by CP or by any of his working students. He is demanding of horse and rider, but this person has also spent time riding in a few top European training barns, and he is not any tougher than some very highly regarded international riders. My friend had also taken two of her young horses with her to his barn, and they handled things really well and made enormous progress during those three months.
This same friend later sent her stallion to him, to polish up for GP. I canāt remember how long he was there - 5 or 6 months - but when he came back, he looked fantastic, his attitude was great, and he had also made good progress in his training.
I personally have been to CPās barn in FL. I watched him teach lessons, and watched him ride several horses, including in a lesson taught by one of our former Olympians. I did not witness one hint of questionable riding or training, and all the horses seemed to be pretty content with things.
I have also had my horse in a CP clinic, and know several other people who rode in the same clinic. Again, there was no hint of questionable training, and he was able to help the riders make progress with various aspects of their riding. One rider did not have a good experience with him as she was pretty sore from a recent breast biopsy, and she felt he pushed her too much.
Another friend who rode in the same clinic, later went to FL and spent the winter training in his barn. When he went back to his NJ facility the next spring, she decided to sell her house in this area and move to that area so she could continue riding with him. She bought an FEI schoolmaster from him, and has now purchased another promising younger horse.
Personally, he is friendly, charming, outgoing, enthusiastic, and passionate about horses and dressage. When I was around him, I kept looking for signs of horns or a pointed tail, but alas, I saw none.:winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
I saw him with the ā666ā number at Gladstone a few years ago. :lol:
DownYonder, Your story although interesting is a " I knew somebody
So, ponypappy, what then is your personal experience with CP?
Lets just say its more than I knew somebody or I heard something.
I saw this in on online article:
āParra also filed a malicious prosecution suit against the Hunterdon SPCA and the Hunterdon County Prosecutorās Office. That suit is still pending. The ādiscoveryā period is set to end in September. No court hearings are currently scheduled.ā
Why anyone still sends horses to this person is beyond me. I would look at all the drama and say, I want someone who has the time to ride and train my horse and I. How can they be doing their best at that when they are caught up in so much drama.
He will never make it onto a US team regardless of what kind of horse he has. Too much bad publicity for the team. The US dressage program doesnāt need that kind of PIA.
[QUOTE=ponypappy;8139782]
Lets just say its more than I knew somebody or I heard something.[/QUOTE]
So if you have dirt on him, why arenāt you pressing charges? Or have you pressed charges, and gotten nowhere?
Itās obvious you have made it your personal mission in life to see him discredited and run out of business. What a sad life you lead.
[QUOTE=DownYonder;8139980]
So if you have dirt on him, why arenāt you pressing charges? Or have you pressed charges, and gotten nowhere?
Itās obvious you have made it your personal mission in life to see him discredited and run out of business. What a sad life you lead.[/QUOTE]
I donāt think thatās sad at all. Whatās sad is that Parra canāt seem to separate himself from tons of drama. There are plenty of people who are GP level and successful who donāt have controversy surrounding them like a mist wherever they go.
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8140002]
I donāt think thatās sad at all. Whatās sad is that Parra canāt seem to separate himself from tons of drama. There are plenty of people who are GP level and successful who donāt have controversy surrounding them like a mist wherever they go.[/QUOTE]
Agree it is sad that Parra has tons of drama.
But it is pretty darned ridiculous that ponypappy discounts testimony from others with personal experience with Parra, insinuates that he has personal knowledge of wrongdoing, yet wonāt man up and come forward with his allegations.
Until he tells us what his personal experience/involvement with Parra is, we are playing āhe said, she said.ā And I am sticking with my personal experiences and observations, and those of my friends, over some vague insinuations from an anonymous internet stalker.
What I said in my post is the absolute truth with no exaggeration of any kind. It is fact and not a story. I was there for about 3 hours. I canāt imagine what I might have seen had I stayed longer. A few hours was enough. Had any of the horses I saw ridden been mine, I would have told him to get off and taken the horse home. I like to think Iām smart enough to watch someone train before I entrust my horse to them. A curb bit combined with the horseās head tied down is cruel and dangerous for horse and rider. The owner of the upper level horse I saw ridden has been there daily for years and couldnāt have objected or he would have taken his horses away (and now has). Parra was directly in front of me when blood spurted and ran. It was impossible to miss and I was not mistaken. A very big name international judge was there on the same day. She watched Parra train in this equipment and seemed completely unfazed, even allowing someone with her to get on a horse with its head tied down. This was after the rollkur scandal and she didnāt object. Some people have no problem with this type of ātrainingā but I certainly do. I know different ācampsā have formed in dressage, all claiming to be in the best interest of the horse. Iām in whatever camp thinks you donāt beat the living crap out of a horse or tie its head down. The only correct riding I saw at the barn that day was a wonderful young German trainer riding a horse very tactfully at Grand Prix. I knew I shouldnāt have reported what I saw online. Itās lose-lose for me. It was spoken as a warning to anyone who cares about their horseās best interest.
I donāt disbelieve you, this just makes me want to run far from the āsportā of dressage and never turn back. How sickening.
[QUOTE=emipou;8140247]
I donāt disbelieve you, this just makes me want to run far from the āsportā of dressage and never turn back. How sickening.[/QUOTE]
Thatās why Parra needs to go back to his home country to practice dentistry. He gives the sport a bad name.
[QUOTE=emipou;8140247]
I donāt disbelieve you, this just makes me want to run far from the āsportā of dressage and never turn back. How sickening.[/QUOTE]
I donāt think there is any sport without any ādark sidesāā¦ In general I think if everybody tries to perform as correct and as fair to everybody involved that will help already.
I think it does not help when honest people quit the sport because of othersā¦
And concerning this story. I do know several people who trained with and worked for CP. And so far I have only the best experiences with them. Usually I only believe what I see myself. Until then I have no opinion at allā¦
[QUOTE=meupatdoes;8138952]
The bolded, just so you know, is super annoying to the honest people who are not going to screw you over.
I used to keep my 3 horses at a private 8 stall barn behind someoneās house. I was the only boarder and the owner had his own 4 horses. This barn was an hour and a half away from where I lived, but it was an architectural masterpiece, with vaulted ceilings, sky lights, 15ā x 18ā stalls, a heated washstallā¦the works. One of my horses was for sale, and I had secured permission to allow guests to come on the property to try the horse. So these yahoos scheduled an appointment to come see him and wanted to come in the morning. I told them to come at x time, but if they came earlier I would not be there due to the hour and a half commute.
Fully an hour before the scheduled time while I am driving down 78, I get a call from the owner of the property who graciously lets me board horses at his PRIVATE (!!) PALACE that he is looking out of his kitchen window and there are yahoos loose in the barn unsupervised. Since the only people who ride there are him and me, there is no one else there. No grooms, no staff, no one.The one person who rides there is trying to have breakfast with his family and the other person who rides there is driving down 78! Meanwhile the yahoos had taken it upon themselves to go down the hill and through several gates to access the barn, and upon finding it entirely empty, decided to just ā¦remain milling about in someone elseās showpiece architecture rather than return to their vehicle.
So the owner of the property had to abort breakfast with his family and had to go down the hill to corral the yahoos and spend an hour babysitting them and saying pleasantries while I drove down 78 as fast as I possibly could.
When I arrived, I a.) was pissed, and b.) marched to the paddock, called the horse up from yon hill, led horse back to the barn, put him in his house to pee with a flake of hay, got his tack organized in the grooming stall, pulled him out, tacked him up, and said āHeās ready for you to get on now.ā
That was the prep.
That was the BIG CONSPIRACY we had going on for this 14.3 Appendix QH I was selling.
People think they are being so slick when they say, āanybody who is honest will just give you free rein to show up at their place any time you want and poke around,ā but actually, no. Boundaries still exist, for perfectly good and non-nefarious reasons.
Watch out when you are so slickly trying to play āgotchaā with someone and treating them from the outset like they are dishonest, because if they are honest, and it turns out that you really like them and how they ride, your FIRST impression on them will have been to act like a total boundary-disrespecting tool and to alienate them. If you actually DO find someone you like, good luck getting them to agree to work with you after that.[/QUOTE]
I hear you, I really do. However, the people you describe I would never do. I would never go through a closed driveway gate, I would never walk through a barn unattended, and certainly would not go through any pasture gates. That is just inappropriate behavior.
I have gotten to farms that were private and the driveway gate was closed. I rang the buzzer, no one came so I drove around for a bit and came back 30 minutes later. I have gotten to barns where no one was there, so I will either sit in my car and read or drive around a bit and come back. If someone is there I will come out and introduce myself. If the person I am to see is not there yet I will sit in my car until they get there.
I breed horses and have had folks come to my place early to see a horse I have for saleā¦I assume for the same reason. Never bothered me.
I have been to barns in Germany where I got there super early because I actually did give myself extra time being in a foreign country. No one ever seems to care, but rather are happy to have me just sit there while they get the horse ready or finish what ever they were in the process of doing.
[QUOTE=ponypappy;8139167]
And by the way DownYonder did you see that his sponsor and business partner (The Davis Family) just pulled out of his barn. Any comments? They must be crazy , isnāt that what normally comes out of his mouth about other previous clients. [/QUOTE]
Just to be clear ā¦the news about Bebe Davis deciding to keep her horses in Florida for the summer (instead of returning to NJ) is more than a month old.
Andā¦Mr. & Mrs. Davis are still recorded as the owners of Van the Man.
In the past I have always scheduled to come at say 9am, but then show up at 8am saying something āI left some extra time incase I got lost and ended up getting here earlyā (as an aside I do this if looking at a horse to buy too). This way I can see a bit of how they do without being totally prepared.
So you lie and you advise others to do the same.
Arriving 15 minutes early might be understandable but intentionally arriving one hour early with a made up excuse so you can catch the person out is rude. It wonāt endear you to those running a good place. Seriously. It shows no respect for other peoplesā time.
[QUOTE=Mardi;8140305]
Just to be clear ā¦the news about Bebe Davis deciding to keep her horses in Florida for the summer (instead of returning to NJ) is more than a month old.
Andā¦Mr. & Mrs. Davis are still recorded as the owners of Van the Man.[/QUOTE]
Well, actually she moved on from Dr Parra and now is training with Oded. And if you search a little further you will see that when Van rode in Lyons France, The Davisās and Dr. Parra were listed as the owner. I suspect it was to protect the partnerships assets in the event the Miranda trial did not go well. I heard this from the parties involved in the sale directly. They actually said there were three owners. I am assuming Mike, Sarah, Parra. If you know different please inform us. Got a PM that said the other horses Davis/Parra do not own together have moved to Odedās as well. But thanks for you update.
Yes, Bebe is now with Oded in Florida, and that announcement is over a month old. Here is one of them: http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=30413
M/M Davis remain as the current recorded owners of Van the Man, by USEF, the NGB of the sport.
https://www.usef.org/_IFrames/Searches/horseRecordingResults.aspx
Iām not clear on what you want me to explain.
Your post #8 made it sound as if this just happened, and that all partnership ties had been severed: āā¦[CPās] sponsor and business partner just pulled out.ā
No matter which side people are on, Bebeās decision isnāt breaking news, and M/M Davis are the owners of record of at least one horse in CPās barn.
[QUOTE=Mardi;8140352]
Yes, Bebe is now with Oded in Florida, and that announcement is over a month old. Here is one of them: http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=30413
M/M Davis remain as the current recorded owners of Van the Man, by USEF, the NGB of the sport.
https://www.usef.org/_IFrames/Searches/horseRecordingResults.aspx
Iām not clear on what you want me to explain.
Your post #8 made it sound as if this just happened, and that all partnership ties had been severed: āā¦[CPās] sponsor and business partner just pulled out.ā
No matter which side people are on, Bebeās decision isnāt breaking news, and M/M Davis are the owners of record of at least one horse in CPās barn.[/QUOTE]
Well, apprantley not everyone new. You may want to check Mirandaās Facebook page because it looks like Mr Davis is supporting her. I think him losing The Davis Family is a huge deal. And didnāt John McGinity leave as well. He seems to be shopping around for a horse to ride even though he owns one he bought from Parra. Are you seeing a pattern. As many have said maybe they are just tired of the BS. Look Mardi if you and DownYonder want to do business with Parra it would make me really happy if you would.
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