It makes no difference to me who Mr. Davis is supporting, or who is, or is not, in CP’s barn. I have never done business with Mr. Parra, have no need to do so in the future, and I have no idea why it would make you happy if I did.
And I have no interest in looking at Ms. Miranda’s Facebook page.
My only interest is clearing up the foggy facts as you wrote them, which when you think about it, benefits YOU, so you don’t continue to give out misinformation.
There’s nothing to see here, ponypappy.
If you go to the Piaffe Performance website, a couple peoples’ questions are answered. Cesar now owns Van The Man. Also, he has some new investors/partners. Ann Gribbons will be training him.
[QUOTE=norton;8140182]
What I said in my post is the absolute truth with no exaggeration of any kind. It is fact and not a story. I was there for about 3 hours. I can’t imagine what I might have seen had I stayed longer. A few hours was enough. Had any of the horses I saw ridden been mine, I would have told him to get off and taken the horse home. I like to think I’m smart enough to watch someone train before I entrust my horse to them. A curb bit combined with the horse’s head tied down is cruel and dangerous for horse and rider. The owner of the upper level horse I saw ridden has been there daily for years and couldn’t have objected or he would have taken his horses away (and now has). Parra was directly in front of me when blood spurted and ran. It was impossible to miss and I was not mistaken. A very big name international judge was there on the same day. She watched Parra train in this equipment and seemed completely unfazed, even allowing someone with her to get on a horse with its head tied down. This was after the rollkur scandal and she didn’t object. Some people have no problem with this type of “training” but I certainly do. I know different “camps” have formed in dressage, all claiming to be in the best interest of the horse. I’m in whatever camp thinks you don’t beat the living crap out of a horse or tie its head down. The only correct riding I saw at the barn that day was a wonderful young German trainer riding a horse very tactfully at Grand Prix. I knew I shouldn’t have reported what I saw online. It’s lose-lose for me. It was spoken as a warning to anyone who cares about their horse’s best interest.[/QUOTE]
I have said this before and will say it again. If you were to go behind the scenes at the barns of many well known and top international riders, you might be shocked at some of the training techniques. Yes - horses in short side reins, horses being ridden so tight and curled in the neck, they literally could bite their chest, horses being stopped and backed up the entire length of the diagonal or long side - repeatedly - because they weren’t jumping through enough in their changes, horses being free-lunged with the reins looped behind the cantle of the saddle, draw reins being used very regularly - even with a double bridle - horses being made to passage around and around without a break, while the rider smoked an entire cigarette, etc., etc. And horses with spur marks - heck, even America’s golden boy Steffen put a bloody spur mark on his horse in front of thousands of people at WC.
CP trained with a pretty well known and highly regarded German rider, so I doubt he came up these techniques on his own. And the fact that a “big name international judge” watched CP ride and let someone with her get on a horse with “it’s head tied down” sort of confirms my comment above - many folks at that level are somewhat used to seeing tougher and more intense training techniques and sessions than most folks are used to seeing.
And let me make it clear - I am not condoning these techniques, and would not allow them to be used on my horse. But having witnessed many of these techniques being used by some very, very, very well known riders, I know they are not uncommon in many top training barns. And again - when I was at CP’s barn in FL, I never saw any questionable techniques or training methods being used by CP or any of the other riders. Nor did he do anything questionable at the clinic I observed, and that my horse participated in.
[QUOTE=ponypappy;8140419]
Well, apprantley not everyone new. You may want to check Miranda’s Facebook page because it looks like Mr Davis is supporting her. I think him losing The Davis Family is a huge deal. And didn’t John McGinity leave as well. He seems to be shopping around for a horse to ride even though he owns one he bought from Parra. Are you seeing a pattern. As many have said maybe they are just tired of the BS. Look Mardi if you and DownYonder want to do business with Parra it would make me really happy if you would.[/QUOTE]
The only “business” I did with him was to put my horse in a clinic with him. And I did it for one specific reason - with all the rumors about him being an abusive trainer, I wanted to see for myself. And believe me, I was prepared to pull my horse immediately if CP did anything questionable. But nothing untoward happened - horse went well, and CP helped the rider with a few things - without laying one hand on the horse, without changing his equipment, etc.
[QUOTE=DownYonder;8140115]
Agree it is sad that Parra has tons of drama.
But it is pretty darned ridiculous that ponypappy discounts testimony from others with personal experience with Parra, insinuates that he has personal knowledge of wrongdoing, yet won’t man up and come forward with his allegations.
Until he tells us what his personal experience/involvement with Parra is, we are playing “he said, she said.” And I am sticking with my personal experiences and observations, and those of my friends, over some vague insinuations from an anonymous internet stalker.[/QUOTE]
And again - ponypappy. can you tell us exactly what your personal experience is with CP? Otherwise, as I said - you are nothing but an anonymous internet stalker, who “heard something” or “read something”, or who “knows somebody”, blah-blah-blah.
DownYonder, While your are trying to deflect from the story lets go back to the facts. This is a list of cases I know about of the cuff:
Previous case in Palm Beach settled with Ins. Co (need to check year)
Pessler vs Parra
Sparks vs Parra
Morgan vs Parra
Buck vs Parra
Miranda vs Parra
These don’t include the ones in Germany he is involved in.
I hope Trudy Miranda appeals her case. The lack of evidence allowed into court should be appealable according to the attorneys I have talked to.
No one ‘owes’ you any details, Down Yonder. Will you accept you will not get them and just drop it?
I wouldn’t send a horse to Parra but I don’t owe you the deets on what I know, how I know that, and provide three witnesses to what I know.
[QUOTE=ponypappy;8140921]
DownYonder, While your are trying to deflect from the story lets go back to the facts. This is a list of cases I know about of the cuff:
Previous case in Palm Beach settled with Ins. Co (need to check year)
Pessler vs Parra
Sparks vs Parra
Morgan vs Parra
Buck vs Parra
Miranda vs Parra
These don’t include the ones in Germany he is involved in.
I hope Trudy Miranda appeals her case. The lack of evidence allowed into court should be appealable according to the attorneys I have talked to.[/QUOTE]
Not really sure of the merit of the Buck v Parra case…
[QUOTE=carolprudm;8141100]
Not really sure of the merit of the Buck v Parra case…[/QUOTE]
:lol:
I couldn’t decide whether or not to say it for fear of Beetlejuice. I still think ponypappy IS Buck, though…
Buck v Parra!!!
How are we supposed to take anything seriously now?
Rev. Buck… The only person he asn’t sued yet is himself… Thanks for the laugh!
Rev Buck for Prezzident!!:lol:
Buckpappy has a mugshot- so he’s one up on CP.
[QUOTE=netg;8141185]
:lol:
I couldn’t decide whether or not to say it for fear of Beetlejuice. I still think ponypappy IS Buck, though…[/QUOTE]
No, she seems to have more self restraint
I would be more inclined to believe he/she is Trudy Miranda
[QUOTE=ponypappy;8140921]
DownYonder, While your are trying to deflect from the story lets go back to the facts. This is a list of cases I know about of the cuff:
Previous case in Palm Beach settled with Ins. Co (need to check year)
Pessler vs Parra
Sparks vs Parra
Morgan vs Parra
Buck vs Parra
Miranda vs Parra
These don’t include the ones in Germany he is involved in.
I hope Trudy Miranda appeals her case. The lack of evidence allowed into court should be appealable according to the attorneys I have talked to.[/QUOTE]
LOL, sure seems like you are the one trying to deflect from the story. The FACTS are that charges were dismissed for “no cause” in the Miranda case by unanimous vote of the jury. The judge ruled the video could not be admitted as evidence. The jury ruled in the case. Whether mention of the other cases was admitted to evidence or not, I don’t know. If not, it was because the judge ruled they were prejudicial. If so, then the jury wasn’t swayed by them. Basically, you are implying malfeasance on the part of the judge, incompetence on the part of Miranda’s attorney, and stupidity on the part of the jury. :rolleyes:
So do tell - why exactly have you made it your life’s mission to see that CP is discredited? Why are you consulting attorneys about the Miranda case? Why are you following court cases involving CP? Which of these cases are you involved with?
[QUOTE=alibi_18;8141192]
Buck v Parra!!!
How are we supposed to take anything seriously now?
Rev. Buck… The only person he asn’t sued yet is himself… Thanks for the laugh![/QUOTE]
LOL!
I know lets do this! If would NOT considering sending your horse to Cesar Parra then like this post.
If I would not consider sending my horse to ponypappy like this post
[QUOTE=ponypappy;8141321]
I know lets do this! If would NOT considering sending your horse to Cesar Parra then like this post.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, deflecting from the story again? 
Your right lets get back to the basis of this story, injuring William and those that have witnessed personally this type of training before:
I’ve stayed out of this discussion for years because I don’t want his lawyers finding me and threatening me. He makes me so sick to my stomach that I’m going to say what I personally witnessed in only a few hours. He got on a young horse. The horse was a little balky. He beat the H*** out of it until it was terrified and rearing. Then he GOT OFF and put the whip behind his back to put as much force into the beating as possible. He got back on and continued to beat him. He didn’t tell me he was sorry he did it. He told me he was sorry I witnessed it. All but one horse that I saw that day was ridden in a double bridle, with its head tied almost to its chest with two lines coming from the girth in between the front legs, giant rowel spurs, and a whip. He rode by me on a Grand Prix horse and kicked him so hard with the spurs that blood spurted and ran down the horse’s sides. He had young riders using the same equipment. If the horse had reared, it never would have been able to use its neck as a balancing pole to regain footing. It would have flipped over backwards. I’m assuming that’s what happened to William. I sincerely thought I would throw up and I never went back, but it haunts me.
[QUOTE=ponypappy;8141347]
Your right lets get back to the basis of this story, injuring William and those that have witnessed personally this type of training before:…[/QUOTE]
You didn’t answer the question, PappyBuck. What is YOUR personal experience with CP?
Your right lets get back to the basis of this story, injuring William and those that have witnessed personally this type of training before:
I’ve stayed out of this discussion for years because I don’t want his lawyers finding me and threatening me. He makes me so sick to my stomach that I’m going to say what I personally witnessed in only a few hours. He got on a young horse. The horse was a little balky. He beat the H*** out of it until it was terrified and rearing. Then he GOT OFF and put the whip behind his back to put as much force into the beating as possible. He got back on and continued to beat him. He didn’t tell me he was sorry he did it. He told me he was sorry I witnessed it. All but one horse that I saw that day was ridden in a double bridle, with its head tied almost to its chest with two lines coming from the girth in between the front legs, giant rowel spurs, and a whip. He rode by me on a Grand Prix horse and kicked him so hard with the spurs that blood spurted and ran down the horse’s sides. He had young riders using the same equipment. If the horse had reared, it never would have been able to use its neck as a balancing pole to regain footing. It would have flipped over backwards. I’m assuming that’s what happened to William. I sincerely thought I would throw up and I never went back, but it haunts me.
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