Really? Wow, I had no idea the organization was staffed with folks with no horse background. I can see where some positions like CFO or PR or CTO etc. require someone with a professional education and skills and experience in their particular areas but may not have much horse experience, but wouldn’t most other positions require SOME knowledge and expertise with horses?
Although I think what is being discussed here and drugging are two different kinds of abuse, it’s still abuse. Check out this article straight from the horses mouth:
https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/court-upholds-archie-cox-usef-suspension/
I would say a good chunk of the biggest names in h/j have been on the suspension list at some point or another. What does that say about our sport? Archie is regarded as one of the best of all time in hunter sports. Nick Haness was on the list last year and suspended.
Sorry to divert with h/j drama, but it’s all within USEF.
There are essentially no repercussions for blatantly drugging horses and endangering both horse and rider in the process. This has been going on forever. Something needs to change in a big way.
I have proposed (on forum and SM) that I would gladly pay more in USEF drug testing fees for the top 1-3 to be drug tested. No random 8th place testing. No one drugs to lose. Test the winners.
Rant over.
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I agree.
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I haven’t either. I HAVE seen people go back to the warmup and re-school a movement that went wrong in the test just to end on a good note. I don’t consider this abuse, and certainly not “woodshedding” a horse.
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For @Bogey2 and you….
Many years ago probably in the 80s I went with my then Boyfriend to the Hamburg Derby to watch (it’s a huge international show). We only watched the warm up ring because we thought that was more interesting . Hubertus Schmidt was an up and coming Dressage Pro at that time. I believe he wanted to get into the team and the national coach was at the warm up ring as well to check out the riders…
Hubertus Schmidt did a beautiful warm up… I was really impressed. Finally he went to ride his test (which I didn’t watch). When he came back he looked disappointed because obviously it not go as he had hoped. And then to my surprise he started to work his horse again… he rode and rode and rode the horse turned white ( because of sweat) but he still continued… Finally the national coach stopped him and told him to finish the ride….
Maybe this was an extreme situation I don’t know but it happens.
And the other situation I remember was many years later at a state championship. I checked on my horse at the trailer parking place and noticed that a rider longed his horse into the ground while whipping it at the corner of the parking place farthest away from everything. I would have never seen it if I would not have gone to the trailer parking space…. It happens…
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I didn’t say it doesn’t happen…I asked where she was that it happened so often. I don’t see it at the shows in my area. I can tell you the TD’s are on top of things at the shows I attend.
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Yes! This would be a step in the right direction.
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Many times neck issues are caused by training.
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In my observation, a wobbler diagnosis is not a loss of use situation due to the potential danger of the horse to himself and others.
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And the vets who are supplying the drugs are involved too.
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Please show us some scholarly articles on that.
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If you look at the USEF financial statements, you will find that they raised $5.8 million in drug testing fees from competitors, and SPENT $3.5 million related to testing. That was in 2021, the latest form 990 I could find. Since that was a covid year, I looked at 2019. They raised $6.2 million in drug testing fees and spent 3 million. This just seems wrong, so if I were still showing, I wouldn’t be voting for more drug fees, but agree that they could do more testing in a different way.
That said, I had a trainer way back in my hunter days who had a couple adult students who MiGHT squeak out a ribbon but certainly weren’t going to win. Those horses got a little something at the shows so they didn’t get silly
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Feel free to research it yourself - start with rolkur. Its not like I know some kind of secret that no one else is aware of.
Coming back to give you a starting point - google International Society for Equitation Science. Go to Position Statements and chose Position Statement on Alteration of head and neck if the link doesnt work.
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Thank God! They have brain!
Oldenburg and Hannover have excluded Sandbrink and Klieber! That’s great!
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I was directly questioning your link between rollkur/hyperflexion and Wobblers. There doesn’t seem to be any that I know of or can find.
I personally believe that Wobblers could be exacerbated by rollkur/hyperflexion, but sooner or later signs of Wobblers, if the bony abnormalities are there, are going to come calling whether the horse has spent time in rollkur/hyperflexion or not.
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Unfortunately the current drug tests are not catching what they are using. They are always a few steps ahead. So adding more testing won’t necessarily resolve the issue.
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This is wonderful news!
Here is the thing. Membership organizations have the right to ban people from membership if what those members are doing is not in alignment with their mission, vision and values.
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Hmmm. I don’t think Spicy said there was a link between Wobbler’s, per se, and poor riding. She said there was a link with neck issues and poor riding. I think there is plenty of evidence around to show that to be true, and I do seem to remember a study on it a few years ago.
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That link was provided by Spicy about that massive study a few posts up.
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Thank you for being so forthright, I think it is imperative that people speak up in a rational and calm manner, as you have.
As much as we wish that people were able to look after their own horses, this is certainly not the case in this day and age. Trainers are paid to train and look after an owner’s horses, and most owners and riders, especially those without horsey connections, may look to USEF and unless they know what to dig for, they aren’t necessarily or easily going to find a trainer’s record of abuse…
USEF has a duty to its members, to owners and riders, (especially the new ones) to make it clear that when horse abuse happens on USEFs watch, USEF takes action and that people are aware of it.
The excuses are getting old. Very old.
Not Dressage , but it’s USEF and here is their cheerful profile of Devin Ryan. https://www.usef.org/team-usa/athletes/devin ryan
Anyone who looks him up on the USEF website will see his list of accomplishments first thing , but nothing about the abuse that had him and all his horses removed from the showgrounds of the Hampton Classic.
USEF, if you consider “social license” to be such a priority and want horse sport to continue, you have to do better than this. People expect that the National Federation will provide some sort of guidance and oversight into how their members can avoid abusive trainers, and choosing the abuser to represent the U.S. on a Nations Cup team and allowing them to represent the U.S. at the WEG is not in the least bit helpful.
How could any new owner or rider be able to make an educated decision to be associated with him, when USEF only trumpets his achievements? How would anyone newly interested in Show Jumping know that his serious abuse of horses in the past had him removed from the grounds of a big time horseshow?
I feel the same about Parra. People knew, but were not listened to.
At least a Steward did his job in Ryan’s case (apparently that hasn’t been done in Parra’s case) but while a Steward did his job with Devin Ryan, USEF failed miserably. Ryan was suspended for 6 months and put on the USEF team within two years.
USEF, that is not in any way shape or form a commitment to horse welfare. It is your commitment to the best chance of winning.
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