New Article on Cesar Parra Controversy

[ponypappy]

Yep, The Davis family has moved out. BeBe is now training with Oded Shimoni in Wellington. Van The Man is staying with Parra, probably because they are partners in the horse. Wonder what is happening to all the other horses the Davis family owned?

FEI Database
Since Owner Nationality
29/12/2011 MICHAEL & SARAH DAVIS United States of America
29/12/2011 MICHAEL DAVIS/SARAH DAVIS/CESAR PARRA United States of America
29/12/2011 Dr. Cesar Parra & Michael Davis United States of America
15/12/2011 S. & G. Rothenberger Netherlands
04/11/2010 Dressurstall Rothenberger/Erlenhof OHG Germany

Explain This?

[meupatdoes]

I can say that it would be very hard for this case and the attention it got to make his reputation any worse than it already was.

I have never met the man or seen him personally but speaking to his REPUTATION… the number of different people from all aspects of the equine industry and all up and down the eastern sea board who have independently mentioned his reputation for being very tough on the horses or how amazed they were at how harsh he was being with one in a warm up for all to see is legion.

Maybe he’s secretly the greatest guy ever and everyone has just magically singled him out, but either way he had this reputation well before Trudy Miranda ever showed up. Which makes me wonder why she or anyone else still shows up, but whatever. It’s not like there aren’t multiple other options who also have international GP experience within 45 minutes driving distance of that farm who have existed in the industry for decades WITHOUT a giant rumormill swirling around them, or anything.

[BeeHoney]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;8135849]

Which makes me wonder why she or anyone else still shows up, but whatever. It’s not like there aren’t multiple other options who also have international GP experience within 45 minutes driving distance of that farm who have existed in the industry for decades WITHOUT a giant rumormill swirling around them, or anything.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it’s a complete mystery to me too how he still has clients. Don’t people have a phone or a computer with an internet connection? I’m not saying I believe everything I read on the internet or that I expect others to, but I think his reputation is pretty easy to decipher.

The use of the word “exonerated” in reference to this case makes me cringe. Key evidence was hidden from the people who made the decision. I’m sure there was a legal reason it had to be that way, but it you’d have to be pretty dense to assume that what happened wasn’t a case of animal abuse.

[PeanutButterPony]

He’s the Dressage equivalent of WP’s Shane Dowdy, Shirley Roth and Cleve Wells. You wonder how they continue to do business, but they do.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;8135849]
I can say that it would be very hard for this case and the attention it got to make his reputation any worse than it already was.

I have never met the man or seen him personally but speaking to his REPUTATION… the number of different people from all aspects of the equine industry and all up and down the eastern sea board who have independently mentioned his reputation for being very tough on the horses or how amazed they were at how harsh he was being with one in a warm up for all to see is legion.

Maybe he’s secretly the greatest guy ever and everyone has just magically singled him out, but either way he had this reputation well before Trudy Miranda ever showed up. Which makes me wonder why she or anyone else still shows up, but whatever. It’s not like there aren’t multiple other options who also have international GP experience within 45 minutes driving distance of that farm who have existed in the industry for decades WITHOUT a giant rumormill swirling around them, or anything.[/QUOTE]

That’s the thing I don’t understand. That area is FILLED with many wonderful trainers and instructors. Why do people train with Parra when there are many other nice facilities where you can find FEI dressage judges, plenty of R and S judges with their own programs, competitors who compete on every possible level national and international, some of whom take riders of all levels??? Farms that host regular clinics with a lot of BNTs?

I don’t understand his appeal at all. I’m surprised he still has clients.

I recall seeing a group of riders from his farm at Gladstone a few years ago and they stuck together in a small group and seemed to have a bit of 'tude going on. Sitting in the stands nearby, I could easily hear what they were talking about, not like it was anything bad, but most of the discussion had a snotty tone to it.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8135899]
That’s the thing I don’t understand. That area is FILLED with many wonderful trainers and instructors. Why do people train with Parra when there are many other nice facilities where you can find FEI dressage judges, plenty of R and S judges with their own programs, competitors who compete on every possible level national and international, some of whom take riders of all levels??? Farms that host regular clinics with a lot of BNTs?

I don’t understand his appeal at all. I’m surprised he still has clients.

I recall seeing a group of riders from his farm at Gladstone a few years ago and they stuck together in a small group and seemed to have a bit of 'tude going on. Sitting in the stands nearby, I could easily hear what they were talking about, not like it was anything bad, but most of the discussion had a snotty tone to it.[/QUOTE]

And this Miranda person drove from like hours away.

What all other driveways did she drive past on her way to the promised land, I wonder?

Don’t.
Get it.

[ponypappy]

It does seem that the court of public opinion has been the real winner!

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;8135901]
And this Miranda person drove from like hours away.

What all other driveways did she drive past on her way to the promised land, I wonder?

Don’t.
Get it.[/QUOTE]

I feel very bad for William’s owner.

It makes me wonder what Parra is doing to draw people in. Something must be going on.

[ToN_Farm]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8135899]
That’s the thing I don’t understand. That area is FILLED with many wonderful trainers and instructors. Why do people train with Parra when there are many other nice facilities where you can find FEI dressage judges, plenty of R and S judges with their own programs, competitors who compete on every possible level national and international, some of whom take riders of all levels??? Farms that host regular clinics with a lot of BNTs?

I don’t understand his appeal at all. I’m surprised he still has clients.
[/QUOTE] Being that we are from the same general area, I don’t quite agree with you. Yes, the area is filled with trainers. Whether they are wonderful or not depends upon who you ask.

I understand his appeal. He is able to buy the right quality horse for the client and keep said horse in training so that the rider wins in competition. He has had more top winning riders come out of his program than any other trainer in the area. Every horse he himself or his assistants show, are at the top or close to it with very high scores. No other trainer in the area has a better record to my knowledge. Working students and assistant riders that have learned from him and left, have gone on to become successful trainers and/or riders.

We can see from discussion on this forum that everyone has a different opinion of what is harsh or what is abusive. And there are some people that don’t even care so long as the horse can win for them. I think there are some people (my opinion only of course) that really don’t worry much about the training breaking the horse down (they would never admit that though) because there is an abundance of money to replace the broken one.

[SnicklefritzG]

I don’t think there is any trainer in the area who gets 100% positive feedback on everything. I don’t know of anyone anywhere who does. What I’m getting at is that there are plenty of choices. It’s not a wasteland of training where Parra is the only option.

Your reply makes it sounds like it’s a problem to find a decent trainer in the area, but I don’t think that’s the case.

Is his winning percentage a function of his ability as a trainer? Or the amount of money that his clients are able to put into the horses? Or some combination of those two things or other factors?

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;8135949]
Being that we are from the same general area, I don’t quite agree with you. Yes, the area is filled with trainers. Whether they are wonderful or not depends upon who you ask.

I understand his appeal. He is able to buy the right quality horse for the client and keep said horse in training so that the rider wins in competition. He has had more top winning riders come out of his program than any other trainer in the area. Every horse he himself or his assistants show, are at the top or close to it with very high scores. No other trainer in the area has a better record to my knowledge. Working students and assistant riders that have learned from him and left, have gone on to become successful trainers and/or riders.

We can see from discussion on this forum that everyone has a different opinion of what is harsh or what is abusive. And there are some people that don’t even care so long as the horse can win for them. I think there are some people (my opinion only of course) that really don’t worry much about the training breaking the horse down (they would never admit that though) because there is an abundance of money to replace the broken one.[/QUOTE]

[ponypappy]

Ton Farm, your right he can buy horses with the clients money, have successful kids from Europe train and ride the horses for him and charge the client what they would be charged if he were riding the horses. He then has the kids show the horses making the owner happy and thus building his reputation with paid press releases. The horses that he has ridden and trained have either ended up broken or worse. I spoke to some German friends at Wellington that over the years they have watched great horses go down the tubes under his care.

Find a great horse, client looks good, have someone else ride and train it, call it a team and pay for lots of Press Releases to make the client feel important. The problem lies when they find out you ripped them off, injured their horse and understand who you really are. Of course this is only speculation. He needs other people to build his reputation. Other trainers should figure out the scheme. It certainly has afforded him the ability to pay for very expensive lawyers and lots of them. How many horse trainers do you know that are able to do that.

[ToN_Farm]

Spot on, PonyPappy.

“Other trainers should figure out the scheme.”

And you think they haven’t?

[SnicklefritzG]

How many times have we seen this sort of thing elsewhere? Tiger Woods and Vonn (now split). Who would want to date that guy after how many people he fooled around with while he was married? Yuck! But people still fell for him for some reason. $$, fame? who knows.

[pinecone]

[QUOTE=netg;8135753]
The fact this was used to smear him all over the internet, there is not a medical understanding of what is and was wrong with the horse, and the owner had video of herself riding the horse in draw reins shorter than those CP was longeing with made this one a sham of a lawsuit to me.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

Cesar’s not an angel but I think the court got it right with this case. I suspect Miranda saw dollar signs and a chance for 15 minutes of fame, but this case stunk from the start. I wonder if she will have to reimburse any of his legal fees now, or if he will countersue for court costs and related fees.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=pinecone;8136046]
I agree.

Cesar’s not an angel but I think the court got it right with this case. I suspect Miranda saw dollar signs and a chance for 15 minutes of fame, but this case stunk from the start. I wonder if she will have to reimburse any of his legal fees now, or if he will countersue for court costs and related fees.[/QUOTE]

who would want to continue training with a guy who has so much controversy surrounding him that he’s been dealing with legal troubles for as many years as he has? Shouldn’t he be teaching and training? I wouldn’t consider working with him even if he was the only person in my area. too much controvesy and drama.

[ToN_Farm]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8136036]
How many times have we seen this sort of thing elsewhere? Tiger Woods and Vonn (now split). Who would want to date that guy after how many people he fooled around with while he was married? Yuck! But people still fell for him for some reason. $$, fame? who knows.[/QUOTE] :lol: Hey, OJ can still get women (and men). Look at those trainers that killed horses for insurance money. They continued to keep clients. What some of you don’t seem to be able to understand is that to some clients, being have to acquire a fancy horse and win at FEI trumps everything else.

[netg]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8136056]
who would want to continue training with a guy who has so much controversy surrounding him that he’s been dealing with legal troubles for as many years as he has? Shouldn’t he be teaching and training? I wouldn’t consider working with him even if he was the only person in my area. too much controvesy and drama.[/QUOTE]

I agree on that. The legality vs. if I would ever send a horse there are two TOTALLY different stories. And when it comes down to it, while I hope he is nailed to the wall by someone sane assuming there’s fire causing all the smoke, I also don’t know that I believe the sane, rational type who would have good evidence and proof will get in a situation to sue him and do that to their horses.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=netg;8136127]
I agree on that. The legality vs. if I would ever send a horse there are two TOTALLY different stories. And when it comes down to it, while I hope he is nailed to the wall by someone sane assuming there’s fire causing all the smoke, I also don’t know that I believe the sane, rational type who would have good evidence and proof will get in a situation to sue him and do that to their horses.[/QUOTE]

The sane, rationale people will see what happened to William and not step within miles of that place.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;8136110]
:lol: Hey, OJ can still get women (and men). Look at those trainers that killed horses for insurance money. They continued to keep clients. What some of you don’t seem to be able to understand is that to some clients, being have to acquire a fancy horse and win at FEI trumps everything else.[/QUOTE]

We’ve seen it happen too many times!! sick!!

[Crash_Helmet]

A glut of Parra training videos were uploaded on dressageclinic.com a few months ago. Have any of you seen them? They are remarkably bad. Even if Parra can take a topnotch horse to the top, I expect the only place he could take my unspectacular horses is to the bank.