[QUOTE=out west;8107265]
GAP, I am trying to decide if your arrogance exceeds your ignorance or vice versa.[/QUOTE]
You’re not the only one wondering that! :lol:
[QUOTE=skydy;8107270]
That is common knowledge.
You seem to underestimate the intelligence of most people here, professional breeders or not, when you assume that they were never exposed to genetics 101. The breeders that I worked for “back in the day” were well aware of genetic principles. What you are saying is nothing new.
In expert hands there is much to be said for line breeding. Sure there are breeders who know nothing about what they are doing, but that will always catch up to them.[/QUOTE]
And yet, there are people on here asking about inbreeding as though it is the keys to a magic kingdom. If they know so much, why is that?
I remember pwynnnorman posting about the results of close inbreeding – basically she got midgets, although it could have worse. Do you think she doesn’t know what she is doing?
Nobody knows what they are doing with regards to inbreeding unless they have mapped DNA in front of them.
[QUOTE=out west;8107265]
Posted by GAP. I’ll see your biology degree and raise you a Ph.D in genetics. I have also bred 7 foals and from the above I know two things with certainty: 1) I am FAR from an expert in horse breeding and 2) For my future horses I will continue to seek out quality young bred by experienced BREEDERs. I will continue to ask for and listen to their knowlege. I do have a NICE mare and might, one day, consider breeding her; again with advice from those with actual knowlege and experience! GAP, I am trying to decide if your arrogance exceeds your ignorance or vice versa.[/QUOTE]
If I’m going to talk to a breeder it would likely not be one on COTH, although I would certainly talk to Fred! She bred a beautiful stallion who has had successful offspring and grand offspring. I’d also go to breeders that have actually bred GP jumpers (plural). I suggest you look up Bayhawk’s track record, for example. There’s certainly not a lot there as far as competition horses go, and he’s been breeding horses for while a while.
[QUOTE=Cumano;8107288]
And it is also interesting to know that Leon Melchior, a pioneer of linebreeding in horses with his Zangershaide Stud, employed full time Vets and geneticists to manage his breeding program.[/QUOTE]
He is no doubt trying to lower the risks associated with inbreeding. He probably needed full time vets and geneticists to do that.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8107386]
If I’m going to talk to a breeder it would likely not be one on COTH, although I would certainly talk to Fred! She bred a beautiful stallion who has had successful offspring and grand offspring. I’d also go to breeders that have actually bred GP jumpers (plural). I suggest you look up Bayhawk’s track record, for example. There’s certainly not a lot there as far as competition horses go, and he’s been breeding horses for while a while.[/QUOTE]
No , not much…I was recently ranked 27th on the USEF jumper breeding list but again , that’s not much considering I do 90 % of my business in Germany.
I’ve also bred an approved stallion , 2 champion mares, multiple premium mares , highest scoring foal in the country and buy some of the best horses in the world for clients at the top of the sport. But again ,thats not much.
Where are you ranked ? Where is your show record ? Oh thats right , it got lost or the dog ate it or something…
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8107382]
And yet, there are people on here asking about inbreeding as though it is the keys to a magic kingdom. If they know so much, why is that?
I remember pwynnnorman posting about the results of close inbreeding – basically she got midgets, although it could have worse. Do you think she doesn’t know what she is doing?
Nobody knows what they are doing with regards to inbreeding unless they have mapped DNA in front of them.[/QUOTE]
“Close inbreeding” and line breeding are two different things.
[QUOTE=skydy;8107438]
“Close inbreeding” and line breeding are two different things.[/QUOTE]
No duh. Kysteke or whatever her name is was asking about close inbreeding. Why else would I have brought it up?
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;8107429]
No , not much…I was recently ranked 27th on the jumper breeding list but again , that’s not much. Where are you ranked ?[/QUOTE]
Can you link to videos of your GP winning horses? Are any at 1.6m?
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8107444]
Can you link to videos of your GP winning horses? Are any at 1.6m?[/QUOTE]
Don’t answer a question with a question. I asked you where you were ranked on the breeding list and where is your show record.
So you don’t have any. Otherwise you’d be bragging about them nonstop. What is this breeding list anyway? Or won’t you answer that question either?
I’ve already answered questions about my show record, btw, as if that has anything to do with this.
[QUOTE=Cumano;8107288]
And it is also interesting to know that Leon Melchior, a pioneer of linebreeding in horses with his Zangershaide Stud, employed full time Vets and geneticists to manage his breeding program.[/QUOTE]
Actually Melchior was emulating earlier breeders, like the great French TB breeder Marcel Boussac who used inbreeding with great success. Boussac was the most prominent modern (early to mid 20th century) TB proponent of close inbreeding. One supposes that Boussac was emulating earlier breeders who used close inbreeding to fix type. Arabian breeders in the West come to mind immediately.
Not to be snarky, but I’d hardly call Melchior a pioneer of linebreeding. Cutting edge methods in breeding yes, but not line or inbreeding.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8107074]
Funny, because you sure have come across as anti-TB on this thread.[/QUOTE]
Are you a professional dancer? Because you can sidestep questions and dance around “points” better than anyone I have ever known (read).
Edited to say I don’t think I actually “know” GAP.
[QUOTE=NoDQhere;8107605]
Are you a professional dancer? Because you can sidestep questions and dance around “points” better than anyone I have ever known (read).
Edited to say I don’t think I actually “know” GAP.[/QUOTE]
I think just a person who might have talked themselves out on a limb??
GAP, you have made it clear, on another thread, that you do not understand the meaning of the term “dam line”. That shows an inexperience and/or unfamiliarity with long standing breeding terminology.
I don’t understand why you are so defensive here (to the point of making yourself look foolish). I enjoy a spirited conversation, everyone has a point of view.
You can always learn. There is no reason to insist that you are right and then , when you are quite wrong on a subject that is NOT a matter of opinion, but a FACT, (not even room for an opinion about what a dam line is, it is what it is…) become angry when someone very kindly explains it to you.
[QUOTE=skydy;8107679]
I think just a person who might have talked themselves out on a limb??
GAP, you have made it clear, on another thread, that you do not understand the meaning of the term “dam line”. That shows an inexperience and/or unfamiliarity with long standing breeding terminology.
I don’t understand why you are so defensive here (to the point of making yourself look foolish). I enjoy a spirited conversation, everyone has a point of view.
You can always learn. There is no reason to insist that you are right and then , when you are quite wrong on a subject that is NOT a matter of opinion, but a FACT, (not even room for an opinion about what a dam line is, it is what it is…) become angry when someone very kindly explains it to you.[/QUOTE]
I made a mistake skydy. I understand the meaning of the word damline. It’s pretty simple. Breeders make mistakes all of the time when posting on her – sometimes glaring ones. Why don’t you make a big deal when that happens, hmmm?
Considering Cumano’s behavior Howard’s me in the past (when he or she was anything but kind) it shouldn’t be too surprising if I was defensive. But hey, I guess there is one standard of behavior for breeders and another for other people posting on here?
[QUOTE=NoDQhere;8107605]
Are you a professional dancer? Because you can sidestep questions and dance around “points” better than anyone I have ever known (read).
Edited to say I don’t think I actually “know” GAP.[/QUOTE]
No. Just making a statement of the obvious. That’s how you came across on the thread – over and over again. You have not come across as anyone interested in using TBs. Otherwise why plug a Trakhener that doesn’t fit the bill, for example, and say repeatedly that there’s no point in using TBs anymore.
You can choose not to use TBs without being anti-TB. I’m sure if people had proven evidence (not just anecdotal) of them being consistently useful in upper-level sporthorse breeding, they’d be using them.
I really don’t think anyone on this thread is anti-TB - just realistic about their shortcomings for today’s 1.60 courses.
[QUOTE=supershorty628;8107732]
You can choose not to use TBs without being anti-TB. I’m sure if people had proven evidence (not just anecdotal) of them being consistently useful in upper-level sporthorse breeding horse, they’d be using them.
I really don’t think anyone on this thread is anti-TB - just realistic about their shortcomings for today’s 1.60 courses.[/QUOTE]
Have you actually read the posts on here and on past threads? At this point I don’t care at all if I sound snarky, especially after the way you falsely presented my post about PNWJumper’s horse. I couldn’t disagree with you more.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8107725]
No. Just making a statement of the obvious. That’s how you came across on the thread. You have not come across as anyone interested in using TBs. Otherwise why plug a Trakhener that doesn’t fit the bill, for example.[/QUOTE]
Now you are just getting nastier. I didn’t plug a Trakehner, I asked a question. If you honestly believe using a TB who “might” produce a jumper over a Trakehner who is winning at 1.45 and producing jumpers as well :uhoh:…That alone speaks volumes for your expertise.
For the record THAT Trakehner is Approved in Holstein.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8107751]
Have you actually read the posts on here and on past threads? At this point I don’t care at all if I sound snarky. I couldn’t disagree with you more.[/QUOTE]
I read the whole thread, yes. You’re welcome to disagree with me.
I’m also perfectly happy to admit that I’ve never ridden over a 1.60 course and know nothing of how to breed horses for doing that height. I know what I don’t know!
Edited to add: I love how whenever anyone brings up a comment you made, they’re falsely representing you…you said it, not me.
[QUOTE=NoDQhere;8107752]
Now you are just getting nastier. I didn’t plug a Trakehner, I asked a question. If you honestly believe using a TB who “might” produce a jumper over a Trakehner who is winning at 1.45 and producing jumpers as well :uhoh:…That alone speaks volumes for your expertise.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you paid attention to the examples of TBs used in jumper breeding brought up previously… repeatedly. You’re interested in TBs my ass. lol
If you think that horse brings the same qualities as a blood horse that speaks volumes abut your expertise.
