[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8055189]
Question from a non breeder (excluding my mare who the breeder bred 4 times), when you use xx after the sire, are you referring to the mare daughters? Would that be the mare line prodnigy or is there another term?
I’m trying to learn.
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
xx means full TB.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;8048757]
I know that they are almost irrelevant in today’s sporthorse breeding. Who needs to know more ?
Not conversing with you any further GAP…[/QUOTE]
What an ignorant statement. Truly. And I’ve seen some doozies on these forums.
[QUOTE=ynl063w;8049923]
These threads are always so interesting and informative until vineyridge shows up with her passive aggressive defense of thoroughbreds, lack of reading comprehension with regards to others’ posts, and lack of understanding that a horse that is n% thoroughbred is not a thoroughbred, and then grayarabpony shows up with her personal snipes. And then they both accuse Bayhawk of starting a fight.
It’s like the movie Groundhog day, but without any humor whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
Viney is simply working with statistics drawn from records. You can’t fault her for what they show.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;8048757]
I know that they [TBs] are almost irrelevant in today’s sporthorse breeding. Who needs to know more ?
Not conversing with you any further GAP…[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;8049780]There you go again putting words in my mouth…I never said there was no place for TB’s in sporthorse breeding. Read for comprehension.
when have you ever only seen 2 tb’s at an event ?[/QUOTE]
Not only that, he seems to have a very short memory. Quoted from the same page.
[QUOTE=JustJump;8055260]
What an ignorant statement. Truly. And I’ve seen some doozies on these forums.[/QUOTE]
Ignorant ? You must not know how to read. More folks than me on here have quoted you the stats. You’re lucky if there were 50 foals sired by TB stallions in all of Europe in jumping and dressage breeding. More for eventing obviously.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8055303]
Not only that, he seems to have a very short memory. Quoted from the same page.[/QUOTE]
Again…you have no ability to read for comprehension even in your own quotes here.
My reading comprehension is great. Apparently your thoughts about using TBs in sporthorse breeding and/or your writing skills are off though…
As usual, all you can come up with is a cheap shot. I thought you weren’t conversing with me anymore? :lol: Believe me, I wish you wouldn’t, or that you would stop make ridiculous statements on this forum. If you didn’t make ridiculous statements I wouldn’t respond to your posts.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8055325]
My reading comprehension is great. Apparently your thoughts about using TBs in sporthorse breeding and/or your writing skills are off though…
As usual, all you can come up with is a cheap shot. I thought you weren’t conversing with me anymore? :lol: Believe me, I wish you wouldn’t, or that you would stop make ridiculous statements on this forum. If you didn’t make ridiculous statements I wouldn’t respond to your posts.[/QUOTE]
I wish you had more than zero equine related equine experience and then maybe we could converse.
Ooops…not quite zero , sorry. Allegedly you rode some mare in eventing but there are no results to be found and you supposedly bred one foal. Sorry again…
Yeah, you’re sorry all right.:rolleyes: I have owned and been around horses for decades, and yes I have evented and bred a horse. The “zero experience” thing is just a malicious lie on your part.
As far as the competitions results for my mare, well, I present this email from Jennifer Hardwick:
“Both the horse and rider must be members for us to keep track of the records. Unfortunately, back in 1998 when you were a member it was not required that the horse be registered at the lower levels. However, at the Preliminary level we kept records through 5th placing.
Starting in 2005 it became mandatory that all horse and rider at the Novice and above must be registered, and records are kept for everyone.”
I competed my mare through training. I was too busy with grad school to compete her further.
You have often bragged about aiming to breed top horses. Where are those horses again?
All you are good for bayhawk is reciting Holsteiner pedigrees. Buh-bye. This thread is supposed to be about a new decision regarding Holsteiner breeding, not about how much you like to disparage TBs.
[QUOTE=Highflyer;8055248]
xx means full TB.[/QUOTE]
Thank you! I’m a rider/owner/buyer trying to educate myself on terminology re: bloodline etc. I know it was an ammy question and you were quite gracious. 
In Holland we had Julio Mariner: https://www.google.nl/search?q="julio+mariner"&hl=nl&rlz=1T4MERD_nlNL503NL503&biw=1600&bih=698&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=9YQFVbEIgtNRyp2EsAc&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAA&dpr=1#q="julio+mariner"&hl=nl&tbm=vid
http://www.equisoftware.com.ar/tdirsitio/sga_interno.php?idcaballo=11111463&sitio=SGA&sga_idioma=&sitiousuario=&opcionficha=ModCP&opcionmenu=
Elles and others - why do you keep mentioning TBs from past decades that were used for sporthorse breeding?
Do you not understand that today’s TB, and today’s WB are different animals than in the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s, even the 90’s? 
Today’s dressage and showjumping bred WB so far outstrips today’s TB in terms of sporthorse qualities (esp. at the top levels), that adding blood from today’s TB, is - as Bayhawk and others keeping pointing out - going to very, very likely be detrimental to the WB, particularly in the F1 generation. The breeders in Europe know it, and savvy breeders in NA and elsewhere know it, which is why most of them say, “Yeah, let my neighbor do it.” If they need “blood”, they go to another population such as SF, that has been specifically developed for sport horse qualities.
But I suppose a handful of TB fanatics on this forum know SO MUCH MORE about sporthorse breeding than those folks in Germany and Holland, etc., who have seen hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of foals grow up and move into sport (or not). :rolleyes:
And because I just know some of you are going to get on a tangent about event horses, let me state right here and now that my comments above pertain specifically to the disciplines of dressage and show jumping. Breeding for event horses is another beast entirely.
DY, the premise of your post completely misses the mark, as happens very frequently on this forum. The use of the term “TB fanatics” is inaccurate and insulting. You seem to have forgotten the fact that chief members of the Holsteiner Verband and other warmblood registries in Europe are always looking for TB stallions. How is that, considering that it relates so much to the title of the thread?
That type of linebreeding with those percentages in his pedigree and his type of conformation can still be found in horses today. http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=72838&blood=10"a=
A good offspring of Julio Mariner was out of a mare that was not particularly of the heavy and old fashioned type: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10212904
So, if breeding to today’s TB will be so detrimental to WBs, why did the Holsteiner board in Germany just approve breeding to TB stallions approved by other WB registries? Are they not concerned about the detrimental effects? If not, why not?
Admittedly I don’t know anything about the politics of Holsteiner breeding, but it sounds like there’s a disconnect between the board and the average breeders with respect to breeding philosophies.
1 - It is my understanding they still have to give pre-approval to the breeder to use that stallion.
2 - There probably aren’t a lot of TB stallions out there that they will “pre-approve”.
3 - There probably aren’t a lot of TB stallions out there that the breeders will flock to.
4 - If provides outside options to those folks who focus on breeding event horses, which keeps them in the registry.
5 - It provides outside options to those breeders who are thinking in generations (i.e., looking beyond the F1 offspring).
I am guessing the Verband weighed this decision pretty carefully, and realized that impact on the registry will be fairly minimal.
[QUOTE=zipperfoot;8056233]
Admittedly I don’t know anything about the politics of Holsteiner breeding, but it sounds like there’s a disconnect between the board and the average breeders with respect to breeding philosophies.[/QUOTE]
Holstein doesn’t have a lock on that. I’d say that’s true of most any warmblood registry. In Hanover the breeding directors are trying to resurrect the G line… with good reason. They are very durable, have grit, and dual-talent. The breeders are like “Ummmm… late-maturing line, not all that modern in appearance, not foal-makers… nice idea but …no thank you!”. And if the breeding directors want to wait on adding certain outside bloodlines, because, say, they want to make sure a certain trait doesn’t breed on, or wait for a later generation when the hind-leg is better… the breeders are… “That bloodline is HOT, and I want it RIGHT NOW because I will lose sales.”
Whatever long view a Verband would LIKE to take, marketplace pressures have, in my opinion, the last word
[QUOTE=ahf;8056282]
Holstein doesn’t have a lock on that. I’d say that’s true of most any warmblood registry. In Hanover the breeding directors are trying to resurrect the G line… with good reason. They are very durable, have grit, and dual-talent. The breeders are like “Ummmm… late-maturing line, not all that modern in appearance, not foal-makers… nice idea but …no thank you!”. And if the breeding directors want to wait on adding certain outside bloodlines, because, say, they want to make sure a certain trait doesn’t breed on, or wait for a later generation when the hind-leg is better… the breeders are… “That bloodline is HOT, and I want it RIGHT NOW because I will lose sales.”
Whatever long view a Verband would LIKE to take, marketplace pressures have, in my opinion, the last word[/QUOTE]
Yet there are people like DownYonder and Bayhawk who try to make it sound as though the breeders in Europe know all…
Well, I can tell you most people in Holland and Germany have as good as zero understanding of Thoroughbreds.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8055481]
All you are good for bayhawk is reciting Holsteiner pedigrees. Buh-bye. This thread is supposed to be about a new decision regarding Holsteiner breeding, not about how much you like to disparage TBs.[/QUOTE]
For starters, those who know Bayhawk know he is more than just talk, though I’m not going to say more than that because there’s no point and he certainly doesn’t need my defense. The people who he cares about knowing what he has produced already know…suffice it to say that he’s no poser (to understate things a bit)!
What I really wanted to say is that the only things disparaging TBs here are the cold hard statistics in the show jumping world and the reality of the horse that the modern day TB has evolved into (what stoicfish said many pages ago and what Down Yonder said a few posts up exactly).
And before you jump on me to accuse me of being a TB-hater, I’m one of the few campaigning my Thoroughbred at the FEI GP level of the show jumping world. My guy is one in a million, but has some serious struggles with the more difficult GP courses based on his very typey TB type. Supershorty is another who is part of our (small) GP-TB club and says the same things about her horse. You’d be hard pressed to find riders more enamored with their horses than us, but boy are we aware of the mismatch between what we’re sitting on and the type of horses the courses are designed for. I can’t think of why you would want to add that potential difficulty to a breed like the Holsteiner that has been bred to handle exactly what we jump today…or maybe it makes more sense to flip that statement around and say that the courses today cater to the skill set of the best WBs.
From that perspective I totally understand the “let my neighbor do it” sentiment. And expanding on ahf’s point, money talks and with TBs generally viewed as inexpensive, half-TBs are often viewed as less valuable than their full WB counterparts. Not saying that’s right, but it is how it is. Perhaps if there were more breeders like Fred, the story would be different. But as it stands now, the breeder who focuses on TBs aimed at the sport of jumping is a rare, rare bird.
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