yes exactly. the divisions are a “bonus” kind of
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UDJClub,
Thank you for all your efforts toward this. It’s a fabulous idea. Especially the unique judging that’s kind of a cross between dressage/hunters and jumpers/hunters. Love it.
Are you expecting that people can do the dressage portion in a hunter type saddle?
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that’s exactly the concept. we’re from Germany so the whole concept is European/German based.
Shows don’t need to be unnecessarily expensive.
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Of course, we even encourage them to do that! Better Dressage in a jumping saddle than no Dressage at all!! we don’t “judge” you by the saddle, especially in lower levels obviously
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@UDJClub - can you give an example of a division criteria (horse, rider), what classes might make up a division, and (briefly) what is being judged in each class?
I’d love to get a better picture of what you have in mind. There is a large need for a more practical approach to showing one’s horse. IMO. 
XC + SJ is legal and I have seen it done. The issue is you get LOTS of ties, which you have to break by “closest to optimum time” on XC, whch isn’t very satisfying for most people.
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I judge a lot of local shows and one of the barn owner/show managers has been struggling to get entries. Prior to Covid the entries were much higher. These are very nice local shows with good footing and nicely decorated jumps.
I mentioned this new organization and she is very interested in participating. It would differentiate her from the other local circuits . We
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A very big challenge in jumper classes, without the attached dressage, is how to determine a winner when multiple riders do what they came to do, and ride a clean round.
The default is to use time. Timed jump-off, even.
Even in 12" crossrail classes! They are riding for time! Gawdamighty!
Not only are many of these riders not competent to rocket around even an abbreviated course, not only is it potentially dangerous for them …
… but what message does this send to young, low-skill riders about what they should be learning, what they should be perfecting?
Not to mention that it is a terrible message to send to the parents as well. They trust the pros. If the pros are staging the show this way, then this must be ‘good’.
The U.S. seems to be locked into a nonsensical and potentially dangerous cycle in the way they present horse showing and show classes. In no small part because of the rigidity and traditionalism of the USEF. Because even unrecognized schooling shows will follow the USEF, because their entries are often from trainers and riders who aspire to show recognized.
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Style classes are judged somewhat like how you’d score an equitation round if you consider total performance of the horse/rider combination. There is a judge’s score that is based on ability and skill or horse and rider and then some collective type marks. And then standard deductions for rails down or other faults. Scoring scale tends to be similar to dressage, out of 10 top score. It’s common in young horse classes in Europe, but I think it makes good sense for all lower levels where you really shouldn’t encourage turn and burn speed for horse or rider development and safety. But I think the scoring is more interesting than just optimum time.
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Another question – a challenge for some is that the hunter divisions may have a nice set of classes, 3 jumping and 1 flat, the jumping emphasizing correctness of riding and form, over just haring around over jumps …
How much does innate horse quality count in ‘style’ judging, compared with hunter judging? Is the horse judged on its performance considering its own conformation and way of going, or against the nicest quality horse in the class? If that makes sense.
Except at some very informal low-level schooling shows, in a hunter division, the quality of the horse is a major factor. Regardless of how well they are ridden or what they do, rather average randomly-bred lesson horses just aren’t competitive against nicely made hunter-type horses who also have an acceptable round/ride. The lesson string of Arab-cross, draft-cross, backyard pony and aging ranch horse, etc., not a surprise that they are at a disadvantage against a nice warmblood.
When a competitor on a lesson horse is giving good rounds, especially when the rider is a youngster, they and their parents can become a bit discouraged that they have no shot at the placings regardless of how they do. That’s the nature of the division, of course. But sometimes there aren’t many other options that don’t have a speed class.
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I understand, my question is more how do you plan to compensate the volunteer-system of ‘Vereins’, or are there are lot of helpers ready at each of the barns? That would be great.
I would guess that is a big part how shows are less expensive in Germany - each club pitches in to run their show…
Did you check the website? pretty much everything is explained there. we offer “regular” dressage and jumping classes at different levels that are all a class by itself. Let’s say a 90 cm jumping class, judged for style and ability of the rider. Then we offer a A-Level Dressage test, (comparable to first level) which is also a class by itself, just like the jumping class. But these two classes might be one division so whoever gets the best results out of the two classes is the winner of the division. But you don’t have to ride the division, you can just ride the classes by themselves. Divisions always depend on the show organizer. Sometimes there are two classes to a division, sometimes maybe 3 or 4 on two days, It can be E level or even S level… totally depending on the show…
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She can contact us and we can figure something out to help her!
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In ALL style jumping classes the quality of the horse does not matter! The rider (and the rideability of the horse) is being judged, not the quality of the horse. We want to see good riding, balance, rhythm, A GOOD SEAT in between the jumps and over the jumps etc… The competitor is supposed to ride well, not just sit there. Look at Marcus Ehning, he would win every single one of them
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It’s not on the website itself, though. It requires downloads.
Never download off a website that isn’t verified for authenticity. Yours does not have even one outside reference, no names, nothing recognizable in support.
It doesn’t even have your name – not very reassuring of your intentions, whoever you are!
And that is just like any great idea that never happens, or scam site. There are hundreds popping up all the time in any interest niche.
Great SW still doesn’t have the dates you claim on their website. A bit over your skis there.
If this is real with good intentions, you seem to be moving more on ideas, less on substance. Need to get something tangible out there.
Otherwise it’s just an idea with a website. There are so many of those in the world that never come to anything. Something real needs to be there beyond a website with no names, no references, and no verification.
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The more you explain details, the more I like this idea. Actually judging the jumping rounds for quality of riding, whether the horse is balanced, in good rhythm, getting the right numbers in their lines… In addition to no rails or refusals. That would make for a more interesting show in some respects if people are essentially doing a combined test.
Are you all planning on sticking just to Texas for now?
Anyway… this will be interesting to follow. Good luck!
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The USEF dressage rules allow people to use a hunter-type saddle in all classes at all levels up to FEI. It’s only at FEI levels that a dressage saddle is required.
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Thanks for the information.
He should provide credentials and references on the UDJC website. It’s part of how this works.
If people want to present themselves as reputable, no one who is not already in their circle should have to go doxxing to figure out who they are. They also should not assume that they are so important, the whole world already knows them. Not a good look.
Unless they really do want to keep it to just people who already know them. Maybe that’s why they are using the word “club” and not “organization”. That’s fine, they can keep their idea to just their own circle.
I was able to read the entire rulebook by opening the PDF in my browser, not downloading it 
. It answers many of the questions raised on this thread. The organizer has posted here offering his real name, and quick internet searches confirm that someone with that name has the matching credentials. I don’t have any reason to question the intentions or integrity of this new organization.
However, there are a lot of new organizations popping up to attempt to fill or fix some aspect of the competition scene in the US, and it’s not clear that any of them will achieve their ambitions. (See the new Cross Country Equestrian Association as an example from eventing.) They may have success locally and that’s great. But I think that they will be most successful – and most helpful to the education of riders and horses – if they are a positioned as a complement to existing recognized and unrecognized shows, rather than as a replacement. They may also need to rely on existing infrastructure for drug and medication rules and for officials, at least in the short run.
The UDJC rulebook is quite comprehensive in many ways but, as I think someone mentioned earlier, it does seem to assume existing scale. For example, riders need to qualify for certain levels. But would experienced riders or professionals who want to try out this new organization really have to start at the lower levels and test into the higher levels, even if they have successfully competed at those levels for years? How will the UDJC have certified judges in time for the shows it apparently has scheduled? Will the organization realistically have enough participation to create the squads and training opportunities it describes for young riders in its initial year(s), and what provisions will be made if not?
I also wonder about how efficiently shows will really run, if there are classes that have small group “free part” flat work followed by individual jumping rounds and then verbal feedback to each participant. That sounds great, but really slow!
(And finally, this is perhaps a pet peeve, but why require white breeches, even at the lowest levels?! It’s an unnecessary expense for riders who do not need white breeches for any other competitions they enter. What’s wrong with tan/buff/taupe or other conservative light colors?)
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