New Organization- United Dressage Jumping Club (UDJC)

[Mounted]

I was able to read the entire rulebook by opening the PDF in my browser, not downloading it . It answers many of the questions raised on this thread. The organizer has posted here offering his real name, and quick internet searches confirm that someone with that name has the matching credentials. I don’t have any reason to question the intentions or integrity of this new organization.

However, there are a lot of new organizations popping up to attempt to fill or fix some aspect of the competition scene in the US, and it’s not clear that any of them will achieve their ambitions. (See the new Cross Country Equestrian Association as an example from eventing.) They may have success locally and that’s great. But I think that they will be most successful – and most helpful to the education of riders and horses – if they are a positioned as a complement to existing recognized and unrecognized shows, rather than as a replacement. They may also need to rely on existing infrastructure for drug and medication rules and for officials, at least in the short run.

The UDJC rulebook is quite comprehensive in many ways but, as I think someone mentioned earlier, it does seem to assume existing scale. For example, riders need to qualify for certain levels. But would experienced riders or professionals who want to try out this new organization really have to start at the lower levels and test into the higher levels, even if they have successfully competed at those levels for years? How will the UDJC have certified judges in time for the shows it apparently has scheduled? Will the organization realistically have enough participation to create the squads and training opportunities it describes for young riders in its initial year(s), and what provisions will be made if not?

I also wonder about how efficiently shows will really run, if there are classes that have small group “free part” flat work followed by individual jumping rounds and then verbal feedback to each participant. That sounds great, but really slow!

(And finally, this is perhaps a pet peeve, but why require white breeches, even at the lowest levels?! It’s an unnecessary expense for riders who do not need white breeches for any other competitions they enter. What’s wrong with tan/buff/taupe or other conservative light colors?)

[dags]

@OverandOnward

If this is real with good intentions, you seem to be moving more on ideas, less on substance. Need to get something tangible out there.

Otherwise it’s just an idea with a website. There are so many of those in the world that never come to anything. Something real needs to be there beyond a website with no names, no references, and no verification.

Just… like… give them a second. These are horse people trying to build a website, that’s always a comical endeavor. Yeah, they probably mistyped a url once or twice in Instagrams absolute crap interface. Yeah, they are probably linking PDF docs because MS Word is way easier to format than HTML, and hiring people that know how to format HTML is expensive (and PDF is a completely acceptable format for a rulebook). Yeah, they should have some sort of About Us with names and bios and they should hopefully know not to click on downloads on the internet but do they at least know not to give Banamine IM??? (yes, this is a Yellowstone joke)

Sure, there’s a lot of talk and no proof of concept but this is a horse show club, not bitcoin trading. It would have been lovely for someone to whiteboard this entire project before releasing it to the world but right now we have enthusiastic people itching to offer something the community has literally been begging for. We have ascertained that they are not scammers, could we maybe just offer a wee bit of support and enthusiasm in these early stages? Could we help them see what users expect from a website without throwing accusations at them?

I have no qualms with it not being on the GSWEC calendar. Sure, it’s only a 15 minute update if your developers are in house, but you can’t buy just 15 minutes of time from an outside web dev, it’s generally a 1 hour minimum, so they’re probably grouping it with other site updates before they submit. Or their web dev is in-house and probably doubles as general assistant/social media manager/graphic designer/PR team and lords know what else, and has their plate a bit full with the holidays and what-not.

[UDJClub]

we’ll have shows all over the country. step by step of course

[UDJClub]

Hey, if riders want to exclusively ride benchmark tests (regular dressage classes) they’d have to qualify vertically through the levels. BUT Ability classes don’t require qualifying scores so everybody can sign up for Ability classes, no matter which level. With three good scores in a specific Ability Level you can “cross qualify” for the same benchmark level.
The groups will run smoothly, in the low levels there are 4 riders per group, they ride the little dressage part for 5 min, 2 min feedback and then about a min per trip. so that’s 10-11 min per 4 riders, not a lot slower than regular classes.
we’ll also have time plans and proper starting lists so everybody knows when they’re supposed to ride.

[UDJClub]

Thanks for giving us some slack
You’re 100% right. Of course we can put credentials in there, but it’s just another blablabla…
What difference does it really make?
I don’t want to get ahead of myself but I’d assume that putting together a concept like that including rule book, equipment catalog and dressage tests shows that we’re not complete idiots in the equestrian world.
There are always complainers, that’s fine, I don’t care, but we have literally hundreds of people who emailed us to offer help last week after we posted the first video on social media accounts with 0 followers and on top of that a bunch of very big show organizers from all over the country who are interested in partnering up to make things better. Does that mean anything yet, of course not, but does it show that we’re on the right track? 100%

[OverandOnward]

There is a process – proven by many enterprises, organizations, endeavors – to get one’s name and purpose in front of the general public. To be ready to truly make the best impression on the chosen audience, who is much larger than the personal cheering section.

It’s well advised not to get too excited and go public before one is ready for the public. Because first impressions are lasting. Sometimes they can’t be overcome.

If one person speaks up, stats show they are likely speaking for many more who didn’t bother. This is especially relevant when the person speaking is in the initial target location. I’m 45 min from GSWEC and trailer with several schooling show riders in this area. But maybe we aren’t wanted, maybe only their own clinic groups.

There are some current slogans such as “building the plane while it is flying” that sound very cool, but does anyone think about what that really means? The chances of a crash, even of serious flaws being built in, because of the self-induced pressure to hurry? What is the real outcome? Several new launch crashes, missed opportunities, are in the long list of examples.

It’s better to accept feedback objectively, as feedback, and not take it personally. Listen. Think about what it is telling you that may resonate with others you haven’t yet heard from. Instead of defensively reacting that ‘everything we do is right and perfect, we couldn’t do it better’.

The game doesn’t wait while a player gets themselves together. That’s for kids. Be ready. Then play.

Your GP introduction is like entering the ring at a Grand Prix or an A show. How do you want to present yourself? What impression do you want to make? What do you want the audience – who are the judges who will be scoring – seeing you for the first time to remember.

There are no minutes to be given in the real world. The larger the scale, the truer this is. The smaller the chosen group, the more slack one may be able to claim – but best to limit exposure to just that group and avoid appearing to invite in the GP.

[OverandOnward]

@UDJClub

You’re 100% right. Of course we can put credentials in there, but it’s just another blablabla…
What difference does it really make?

Well, when you are communicating with people who aren’t in your own personal circle and know nothing about you …

I’m not sure what world you are living in. But whatever – you are definitely telling us more about yourself than just some credentials ever could.

[mombc24]

I think you should allow qualifying through scores at the equivalent USDF tests as well

[dags]

@UDJClub

You’re 100% right. Of course we can put credentials in there, but it’s just another blablabla…
What difference does it really make?

To be clear, you absolutely should have a bio and your credentials on the site. O&O is not wrong about that, I was just requesting they cut you a little slack while you get your already swimming ducks in order.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@UDJClub

we’ll have shows all over the country. step by step of course

Cool. I really like the whole concept now that you have explained it more.

[LazyA1]

Oh my! Give them a chance.

[cnm161]

I’m always suspicious when the driver is “get away from USEF”. You want out from the auspices of an org that (albeit incompletely) enforces drug and behavior rules? Interesting.

Unrecognized shows already exist. There is at least one barn in the Houston area that already runs CT jumping/dressage divisions at least once a month.

[OverandOnward]

@cnm161

There is at least one barn in the Houston area that already runs CT jumping/dressage divisions at least once a month.

If it is the one northwest of Houston, that show (New Horizon) offers CT, dressage-only and jumper divisions. They have been doing these monthly shows for many years.

The jumper divisions at NH has relatively favorable rules for lesson programs who want to put more than one rider on a horse. Although a rider-horse combo can only enter one jumper division, there can be a different rider in a different division on the same horse. Jumper divisions have 3 jumping and 1 flat classes. A nice set of efforts for a division championship.

HOWEVER, some of us are not thrilled with the emphasis on "timed jump-offs" to place the jumpers. This is even for the very low crossrail divisions, I think down to 18". I think only the beginner 12" crossrails does not have a timed round. Otherwise every clear round goes back into the ring to do their abbreviated course, against the clock.

I get it that they have to do something to place the jumpers with clear rounds. And the timed jump-off is the tradition.

But this has led to a parent here & there (who don’t ride) telling kids (even in the 18" division) to “cut the corners” to make the time and get ribbons. Maybe even told that by a trainer or two, as well. Eeek. Sometimes makes for some scatty riding.

[cnm161]

Plus there is ALWAYS a loose horse. Not sure when, not sure whose. But there is always one (or more).

[UDJClub]

That’s an interesting view.
Hunters are allowed to be drugged, they are allowed to wear ear plugs and are not allowed to move their tails while the equestrian disciplines are one inch before getting cancelled at the Olympics. Drug tests are a joke and nothing but a money maker for USEF, no class at a show requires qualification whatsoever so you can do and ride whatever you want, no matter how bad it is for the horse… That all sounds like true horsemanship…

[UDJClub]

I get your point, you want to see credentials. That’s fair. Understood. But my question is:
What difference does it make?
Why don’t you read the program and decide for yourself if it’s good or not? It doesn’t make a difference if Isabell Werth wrote it or someone who sat on a horse 4 times. And I don’t mean that in a sarcastic way, I’m really curious about it.

[Mounted]

Well one way in which it matters is the setting of standards for the style portion of jumping classes, and for the dressage tests. Also for the training and credentialing of judges. I care about the education, training and qualifications of the people in charge of those aspects of any show.

I do think it’s a little odd to omit that information from the website or the otherwise pretty comprehensive rule book, but I chalked that up to this being a pretty early stage project, especially because you certainly aren’t hiding your identity here.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I think there are some cultural differences in terms of communication and marketing style going on here.

In some respects, it’s refreshing to see a concept for a show series be marketed on the basis of the merits of the idea, and how this experience fits into training & developing young horses, etc. This is a noticeably different approach than marketing a show series by focusing on the venue where it’s held, or by virtue of an association with some big name person… be it a judge, or someone else.

I’m not articulating this point of view very effectively… but hopefully people understand what I’m saying.

[Mounted]

I agree with your comment! But many of the problems that we see with hunter divisions, for example, do come from the way in which they are judged. (Drugging horses is related to the heavy penalization of “expression,” for example.) So, understanding the background and training and preferences of the people who will be setting the standards for and credentialing the judges for the subjective portions of these classes is important in considering how they will or will not promote development of the horse and rider.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

That’s an interesting and fair point! Thanks for that insight.