Oh dear, clueless new boarder (and a question about tom thumb bits)

[Kwill]

How did he seem like a good fit, if many people come and ask? From your description, he clearly isn’t an independent horse owner. I feel bad for him, he clearly won’t understand why you are asking him to leave now – and he may wonder why you are insisting on his girlfriend not riding, and making him take lessons. Hopefully you can be tactful.

Fixing a rider this clueless takes a lot of time. But maybe you want a project?

The other option is just to leave them alone and be sure you aren’t watching when he comes out.

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

[QUOTE=Kwill;8530033]
How did he seem like a good fit, if many people come and ask? From your description, he clearly isn’t an independent horse owner. I feel bad for him, he clearly won’t understand why you are asking him to leave now – and he may wonder why you are insisting on his girlfriend not riding, and making him take lessons. Hopefully you can be tactful.

Fixing a rider this clueless takes a lot of time. But maybe you want a project?

The other option is just to leave them alone and be sure you aren’t watching when he comes out.[/QUOTE]

Well, one woman came and started telling me about her thoroughbred who was a little bit wild, another came with little kids in tow that she didn’t supervise very well in the 15 minutes she was here but wanted them to get to know horses (!), and several others wanted cheap board or board in exchange for work.

He came to visit several times, toured the trails, talked about wanting to trail ride, no interest in wild riding, willing to work (and, in fact, cleaned ALL my stalls plus the indoor, which is being used for turnout right now, without being asked!!). I mentioned right from the start that I wouldn’t tolerate any wild riding or any harsh treatment. He assured me all he wanted to do was walk on trail rides.

Others identified the girl as the biggest problem, and I’m not sure if this is a current or ex-girlfriend or just a friend or potential girlfriend. He talked about an ex who had horses. Not really my business, but her involvement may be the thing that means it won’t work out.

Surely, a boarding barn with resident trainer would be better for him, but there’s no such thing within reasonable distance.

[HungarianHippo]

Up to you, but it’s not your duty to solve that (the lack of boarding facilities).
If you are mainly doing the boarding for social reasons (ie you like having company around), and finances are not a concern, then sure, have at it.

But if you have any expectation that the work you put into your boarding business should pay for itself, then you need to re-think how much you value you place on your time, and how much time you’ll spend helping him learn.

No matter what, please please please tell me you have a written boarding contract.

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

[QUOTE=HungarianHippo;8530095]
Up to you, but it’s not your duty to solve that (the lack of boarding facilities).
If you are mainly doing the boarding for social reasons (ie you like having company around), and finances are not a concern, then sure, have at it.

But if you have any expectation that the work you put into your boarding business should pay for itself, then you need to re-think how much you value you place on your time, and how much time you’ll spend helping him learn.

No matter what, please please please tell me you have a written boarding contract.[/QUOTE]

Yes, pretty basic, though, and a liability form, also pretty basic.

[roseymare]

He needs to put the horse in the bit that the horse is used to. If that is a tom thumb than so be it. There are many horses who do fine in them. I am tired of it being automatically considered a horrible bit.

The problem is the wannabe friend and that the horse didn’t come with any previous advice as to what bit to use and the like.

[cloudy18]

Everyone had to start somewhere. You can surely send him on his way if you don’t have the time or energy or desire to work with him, or if he refuses to take your help. Or you could help him out. I’m sure you have plenty of knowledge, much more than this woman he had out. I would talk to him, tell him nobody else is to ride unless you’ve given permission, and see if he wants some help. Sounds like he might happily take the bit back. You could end up making a positive experience for him and the horse, and get him started on his way to being a competent horseperson.

The one advantage I see to maybe having a green rider is that you might avoid some of the complete crazy you might get with a more seasoned horse owner. The kind that wants you to change Pooky’s blanket with every ten degree temperature change, that sort of thing. You MIGHT be able to mold this person into something tolerable, with a little luck. Of course, if you don’t have the time or desire to try it, then there is nothing wrong with telling him he has to find a barn where he can get some lessons.

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

[QUOTE=roseymare;8530214]
He needs to put the horse in the bit that the horse is used to. If that is a tom thumb than so be it. There are many horses who do fine in them. I am tired of it being automatically considered a horrible bit.

The problem is the wannabe friend and that the horse didn’t come with any previous advice as to what bit to use and the like.[/QUOTE]

From what I’m reading, it’s a horrible bit in the wrong hands. Well, any bit can be horrible in the wrong hands, but some are worse than others, right?

[alibi_18]

[QUOTE=Miss Anne Thrope;8530314]
From what I’m reading, it’s a horrible bit in the wrong hands. Well, any bit can be horrible in the wrong hands, but some are worse than others, right?[/QUOTE]

You also don’t want him to ride his horse with a new bit. How is the horse going to react? How is the guy is going to react?

One need to be really carefull when switching bits.
You never rode the horse, you haven’t gave lessons yet to this guy, I would proceed with caution. There might be a reason why this horse was/is ridden with a Tomthumb. (despite the fact that the guy know squat about bits…)

If this horse was trained with that type of bit, I’d wait a little before making any changes and see how it goes. Especially since this type of bit offers a lot of control, you wouldn’t want the horse not respecting a milder bit with his beginner rider aboard.

Would there be a way to contact the previous owner?

[cloudy18]

He can find a better bit for the horse. Even if it’s used to that, which isn’t necessarily true (it’s not the bit that came with the horse), I bet horse would be much happier with something else. It would be nice to know what the horse was ridden in before…although that doesn’t mean the horse went well in that bit anyway.

My question is, are there any good leverage bits with a broken mouthpiece, or are they all a bad idea in general? I’m thinking along the lines of Junior Cowhorse, snaffle reiner, that sort of thing.

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=f1b20a8c-4d81-46eb-8dbc-9dd4eab8767c&gas=Bitshttps://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2e87bfe2-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&gas=Bits

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

I just contacted the seller. I met him when he delivered the horse, and it turned out we have mutual horse friends. We had a nice long chat about horsemanship, and although he’s a “cowboy” and I’m a dressage rider, we had a lot in common regarding horsemanship, so I felt comfortable contacting him.

Turns out the horse was ridden in an o-ring snaffle. He said he would never use a tom thumb, not even on his mules! He said the horse was soft and bendy, doesn’t need a strong bit of any kind.

And good news! The owner just texted me and asked if I would take a look at the saddle that the girl said was the right size. He wants to know what I think! That tells me he respects my opinion! I’m feeling optimistic now. We’ll have a chat about the saddle and the bit and maybe even have a ride together where I can coach a little bit from one of my horses.

[cloudy18]

Yay, good luck! It sounds like the perfect opportunity to get a beginner started correctly. And his horse is going to be much happier. You’re doing a good deed, and I hope it goes well for you and the boarder.

[fordtraktor]

It sounds to me like it probably isn’t a Tom Thumb at all if it has a roller, but possibly a reining bit. They are less severe because it doesn’t break and poke up in the roof of the mouth quite as high as a single joint which is what a Tom Thumb is. But they are still very strong bits and not for a beginner or young horses.

http://www.chicksaddlery.com/page/CDS/PROD/1040/256940?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google%2Bdata%2Bfeed&gclid=CIC11_Dr-coCFQ8kgQodZecHIg

I have one in my bit box, my brother rode reiners. It could also be what is called a “jr cow horse bit” depending on what the sides look like.

But anyway, carry on, doesn’t make this boarder more competent or change the advice. Not sure anyone in this situation knows much about western so I would probably encourage him to move to a barn that does. He clearly needs more help than you can give. Maybe you can research a kind western barn that can get him started correctly. He needs lots of lessons. A lot of western barns are super harsh so that is the best thing you could do for him, get him set up with people that will train him right.

I board on my private farm too but have learned not to take beginners, it never works out. They scare the tar out of me and do a thousand things around horses that are inappropriate, I find it far too stressful. They need to spend time in a professional setting first before they are ready for private boarding. I simply don’t charge enough to make handholding them worth it. Plus I worry they will get hurt or endanger my personal horses doing something dumb when I am not there.

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

I think it’s this one:

http://www.statelinetack.com/item/western-ss-copper-ring-dogbone-tom-thumb-bit/WBM16/?srccode=GPSLT&gclid=CIS6p7v6-coCFUQkhgodyvoAxA&kwid=productads-plaid^97590007548-sku^133841-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^40405968348

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

It looks just like this one:

http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/PetsUnited/TWBM15?wid=500&hei=500

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8530864]

I board on my private farm too but have learned not to take beginners, it never works out. They scare the tar out of me and do a thousand things around horses that are inappropriate, I find it far too stressful. They need to spend time in a professional setting first before they are ready for private boarding. I simply don’t charge enough to make handholding them worth it. Plus I worry they will get hurt or endanger my personal horses doing something dumb when I am not there.[/QUOTE]

Yes (!) to everything you said here, and in future, if I ever take on another boarder, I’ll have to figure out a way to determine the level of riding before I agree. This guy talked about an ex-girlfriend with horses and an aunt who had 15 horses that he rode out on trails, and we talked at length about the dangers involved in just getting a horse out of the field. I misjudged his experience, for sure.

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

[QUOTE=cloudy18;8530342]
He can find a better bit for the horse. Even if it’s used to that, which isn’t necessarily true (it’s not the bit that came with the horse), I bet horse would be much happier with something else. It would be nice to know what the horse was ridden in before…although that doesn’t mean the horse went well in that bit anyway.

My question is, are there any good leverage bits with a broken mouthpiece, or are they all a bad idea in general? I’m thinking along the lines of Junior Cowhorse, snaffle reiner, that sort of thing.

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=f1b20a8c-4d81-46eb-8dbc-9dd4eab8767c&gas=Bitshttps://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2e87bfe2-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&gas=Bits[/QUOTE]

That bit looks like you could attach the reins right at the mouthpiece, so it would act just like a plain snaffle? Or use the ring at the bottom for leverage?

From what I’ve read about the tom thumb, the swiveling shanks are problematic, again especially in the unsteady hands of a beginner, and completely inappropriate for 2-handed reining.

[UlysMom]

[QUOTE=Miss Anne Thrope;8530950]
It looks just like this one:

http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/PetsUnited/TWBM15?wid=500&hei=500[/QUOTE]

That’s not a Tom Thumb.

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=Miss Anne Thrope;8530950]
It looks just like this one:

http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/PetsUnited/TWBM15?wid=500&hei=500[/QUOTE]

The short, straight shanks probably do earn this bit a “Tom Thumb” classification, but the roller in the middle is atypical for a Tom Thumb, which usually has a single jointed mouthpiece.

I’m of the opinion that the Tom Thumb, like all bits, has it advantages and disadvantages. The best young horse starter I’ve ever worked with in my life is a western trainer, a former reiner. He routinely uses a Tom Thumb in his bit progression during training and he uses it to great effect. So, it really bothers me when I see people here cite the Mark Rashid anti-Tom Thumb screed and paint the bit as being evil. Because it’s not.

Is it suitable for every rider? Of course not. Is it suitable for every horse? Of course not. No more than a twisted wire snaffle or a 3-ring gag is suitable for every rider or every horse. It’s a tool that can be useful in some hands under some circumstances.

OK, climbing down off my soapbox. :lol:

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

[QUOTE=UlysMom;8531020]
That’s not a Tom Thumb.[/QUOTE]

Well, it’s listed as a dog bone tom thumb on several sites. What defines a tom thumb? From what I’ve been reading, it seems to be shanks that swivel attached to a snaffle-type mouthpiece.

[cloudy18]

I think maybe it’s considered a Tom Thumb bc of the straight shanks. While it may not be the most evil bit in the world, the horse is used to a snaffle and the rider shouldn’t be riding with a bit like this.

I have a Junior Cowhorse that was recommended to me, probably for all the wrong reasons, but it did work well on my little mare for trail riding. I’m curious as to the pros/cons of a broken mouthpiece vs one that’s not, in regards to a leverage bit.