Older jumper folks, your thoughts on the jumper culture

[Night_Flight]

The warm-up ring has really been the only place I’ve noticed some degree of this, and again it depends which area you’re in and at what level.

The worst I’ve seen it has been at inter-regional championships where some local people might feel the need to assert their dominance in what might feel to some like a bigger pond.

My quirky old mare thrived in a program where I did two intensive weekends per year with a fantastic trainer from out of province, and spent the rest of the time doing my homework, so I competed on my own (but with a friend or family member to act as a ground person).

In-gates loved me because i was always ready on time and could slip into their spots while they waited for trainer conflicts or for trainers to give long lessons in the warm-up ring.

My ground people had no problem at local shows where everyone was friendly and knew how I operated, but at championships certain trainers from other regions would try to intimidate my helpers and get them to give up my jump. Thankfully they always stood their ground knowing I always directed them to stand at the jump when we were the right number of trips away (thanks to years spent as a groom), and I was happy to share if both groups needed a similar jump, or if they just needed to change it for a minute and then put it back to what I needed.

From experience competing at all levels and working in the show office at international shows, honestly the most troublesome barns tended to be certain local trainers trying to behave how they felt “big trainers” should behave at such shows, though the biggest names were usually the nicest to deal with and the most friendly.

[Spudsmyguy]

Reading your post made me start thinking of the Go Gos song “Our Lips are Sealed”

Can you hear them?
They talk about us
Telling lies
Well, that’s no surprise

Can you see them?
See right through them
They have no shield
No secrets to reveal

Doesn’t matter what they say
In the jealous games people play
Hey, hey, hey
Our lips are sealed

[Rackonteur]

@Luseride

We did go to a schooling show a couple of times and had a woman yell at us for not running our stirrups up before leading out a 12 foot gate. We were also the only ones that tied our horses to the trailer and we got some strange looks and were actually questioned about the safety of doing so. That one really blew our minds.

Where did the others tie their horses? That blows my mind too. I mean, where else would you tie them?

[endlessclimb]

Some people believe that tying to the trailers constitutes cruel and unusual punishment to the horses. I’ve received similar side eyes at local h/j shows - they expect you to pay for a day stall.

[Luseride]

They held them ALL DAY LONG! Or loaded them back in the trailers which to me was not a good idea. It was just very different.

[Redlei44]

@Luseride

They held them ALL DAY LONG! Or loaded them back in the trailers which to me was not a good idea. It was just very different.

Showing off the trailer (straight load, not slant) is common at local shows around here. Horses have haybags and buckets hung, lots of folks install fans in the trailer too. Not that much different than tying to the trailer except horses don’t have to be trained to tie to the trailer.

Holding them all day sounds exhausting.

[PNWjumper]

I agree with the comments about a ground person being the norm, and I have always tried to have one with me because of that. For the last 4 or 5 years my [now 13yo] daughter has been my fence setter. And it was always such a hassle when I was in FEI classes because they’re so regimented about who’s allowed in the warmup ring, and would always assign me my fence and then tell my daughter “no children in the warmup ring” and she would have to explain that (from 8 or 9yo old) she was my setter. We confused a lot of stewards with that, though they always relented and let her in.

But relating back to the OP, she had some of the biggest names in the sport at venues like Tbird and Thermal proactively help her adjust rails when they needed to go above her head. Like someone posted above, some of the absolute biggest names were as kind and helpful as could be, and others were so rude to her! I guess it’s no different than when a horse obliterates a fence in warmup and some trainers will jump to help you reset and others will just smirk and watch.

[Spudsmyguy]

There’s a popular show venue south of me where they require you have a stall even if you’re just there for one or two classes. However, a lot of people do tie to their trailers or keep the horse in the trailer to get around paying an extra fee for a stall you’ll use for a couple of hours. I did that myself with one horse. She happily stood in the trailer and had her hay and water available to her, I also had shavings on the floor; just like being in a stall.

[CindyCRNA]

I was at a schooling show with my eventer yesterday and I was hoping to have him stand at the trailer for the 1 1/2 hours prior to our ride time. While seasoned to standing at the trailer, he was way too wound up, pawing, calling, acting like a 3 year old that this was their first show so I made him stand in the trailer so he wouldn’t hurt himself. Stalls were not an option here. When at all possible, we always get a stall but the schooling jumper show I was at was sold out of stalls so some had to stand. Another jumper show weekend this weekend. My eventer is going to do a 2’6" hunter division on Sat and a 2’11" jumper division on Sun. My good jumper will do a 3’-3’3" round as a warm up and 2 rides in the 3’3"-3’6" division. My barn is taking their little kids too. The other girl in my barn and myself do not have a trainer as our favorite trainer moved 2 states away. Not everyone can have a ground crew unfortuently.

[TheDBYC]

@PNWjumper

But relating back to the OP, she had some of the biggest names in the sport at venues like Tbird and Thermal proactively help her adjust rails when they needed to go above her head. Like someone posted above, some of the absolute biggest names were as kind and helpful as could be, and others were so rude to her!

I don’t doubt there are jerks everywhere. Yet my personal experience has been the more accomplished/famous, the nicer they are.

[TheDBYC]

@Victorious

Even if they have weird tack. Or an appaloosa/arab. Or a helmet cover. Our sport has set very narrow margins for what is “acceptable” and personally I think it is detrimental and most definitely not welcoming. just my opinion.

There was a yahoo assistant trainer & her crew sitting behind me watching the pleasure pony at a local schooling show recently absolutely savaging an Arabian mare we know from a previous barn my daughter rode at. “I hate how that horse has permanent poopy tail! Whhhhyyy does it hold it’s tail like that?” The trainer said something vague about various breeds & tail set. This was a) apparently new information for assistant trainer, b) not information she was willing to accept for integration into her worldview. I swiveled around, tipped my sunglasses, and leveled my teacher-mom death glare at her over them, which shut her up. Even my former SWAT commander SO says my teacher-mom death glare is scary

Ironically, the Arabian mare in question is a nice, safe horse. Better than most of her traditionally huntery breed counterparts. She may grumble and pin her ears when asked to pick up the canter (she’s in her 20’s & into energy conservation), but that is it. She’s protective of her kiddos in a chaotic show ring; has never once offered to bolt, buck, rear, etc in the time I’ve known her; and if she ever refuses a jump, there’s something wrong with that jump. She either sweeps or gets nothing, depending on the views of the individual judge towards non-pony breeds in the pony classes.

[CPL713]

I feel like we always try to make this a discipline vs. discipline issue. It’s a people issue. There are jerks everywhere…unfortunately. I have encountered the kindest people and the worst people across disciplines, breeds, barns, and regions, though yes sometimes a certain vibe can be more dominant.
I agree with the people saying certain barns have cultures that are great or toxic, and the trainer really sets the tone. I think that is why sometimes you will feel like there are a majority of jerks or a majority of more welcoming sorts at a certain show – because of which trainers are there and who they attract.
But people are gonna be people no matter where they are or what sport they are in.

For context, I’m not sure if I qualify as “older” to you, but I do to some. I am in my 30s.

[CPL713]

@TheDBYC

I don’t doubt there are jerks everywhere. Yet my personal experience has been the more accomplished/famous, the nicer they are.

I find this to generally hold true in my professional life outside of the horse world, as well. The people who are just starting to “make it” are often the WORST, while the people who have been in the industry longer, are seeing lots of consistent success, and feel secure are often way more laid-back and have a much better sense of humor about things.

[TheDBYC]

@CPL713

feel like we always try to make this a discipline vs. discipline issue. It’s a people issue. There are jerks everywhere…unfortunately. I have encountered the kindest people and the worst people across disciplines, breeds, barns, and regions, though yes sometimes a certain vibe can be more dominant.

Absolutely.

[trubandloki]

@CPL713

I feel like we always try to make this a discipline vs. discipline issue. It’s a people issue. There are jerks everywhere…unfortunately.

Yes! You nailed it!

[Scribbler]

I feel like that cliquey bitchy competitiveness might be the default setting of groups of young teen girls. Trainers need to actively insist they behave differently. If the trainer is a trash talking young woman, that’s going to reinforce it.

We have Pony Club at our barn. It does really work to make the girls cooperate as a team at home, and also be on their best behavior when they go to PC events.

If a barn could get that attitude to carry over to competing in “real world” shows, competing against barn friends as well as other barns, that would be a fantastic achievement.

[TheDBYC]

@Scribbler

feel like that cliquey bitchy competitiveness might be the default setting of groups of young teen girls.

In my personal experience, it’s grown a$$ adults who are the culprits. Representing the entire gamut of genders, sexual orientation, etc.

[CPL713]

@TheDBYC

In my personal experience, it’s grown a$$ adults who are the culprits. Representing the entire gamut of genders, sexual orientation, etc.

Agreed. I like to blame the youths as much as the next guy, but my personal experience actually holds with what you said. Generally speaking, when I see young teen girls being this way, they are acting in line with what the older riders/trainer/barn owner are modeling (or at least allowing).

[Mander]

This has been my experience as well. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule, both good and bad, but whether it be regarding horses, sports, money, jobs, appearance etc I have typically found that there’s a strange tier right below the “top” filled with people who feel compelled in one way or another to make sure the people “below” know that they’re “below”. Usually that manifests itself as excessive (and usually exaggerated) bragging, being disparaging towards their (perceived) direct competitors and/or being dismissive of people deemed “below” them.

I grew up in the Midwest where these sorts of toxic attitudes seem to run rampant (or at least in my area they did). Everyone was out to get the other and there were well known rivalries even among “private” barns. At one point someone even went so far as to (allegedly) feed moldy hay to a competitor’s horse during fucking 4-h fair week (like seriously, it’s 4h, not nationals). The even crazier thing to me is that no one there was actually riding particularly competitively. Most people only did 2-3 shows (all local) per year, mostly on grade horses, didn’t have consistent trainers, etc. Why someone would get so strung up over shows with $7 entries is beyond me.

I always tried to keep out of it as best I could, but growing up, when I ran into people like that, I generally just stuck to the motto of “If you have to tell someone you are, you probably aren’t.” Or if you prefer Tywin Lannister, “Any man who must say I am the King is no true King.” I think it had the nice twofold effect of me not being intimidated by those types of people, but also helped prevent me (or at least, I hope it did) from becoming that way myself.

[Scribbler]

I agree the teens aren’t getting like this in a bubble.

There are lots of moms who gossip and back bite and trash talk other families and kids at home in that petty resentful way. So of course the daughters learn that way of seeing the world. It’s a great all purpose way to hide social and personal anxiety.