Open Discussion

[Jair]

Now THIS is more like it! Good discussion.

Ccornios - LOVED your friend’s viewpoint that riding is an art. How true.

Pwyn/Devildog: I have also noticed the correlation between horses and music - Hey I play the flute too! As well as piano and guitar. Bill Steinkraus was a violinist and I think he said it had something to do with being able to connect the mind and hands in harmony. I have always felt that my ability to play musical instruments has helped me considerably to ride my horse correctly on the flat and in dressage.

and Ann - about the neat thing - you hit the nail on the head!!! I admit to my strong and sometimes overwhelming urge to be “neat and tidy”. My favourite part of showing is getting my horse ready - bathing, clipping, braiding etc. Love all that stuff.

As for other things that go with horses - anyone else out their have a thing for figure skating? I’ve noticed a lot of riders seem to follow that as well.

[rescuemom]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jair:
What is Camp David?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Camp David is the rustic Presidential retreat in the Maryland mountains. Jimmy Carter used it for the Camp David Accords, between Begin and Sadat, and Pres. Clinton has had the Palestinian and Israeli leaders there again over the past week in an attempt to win further cooperation between the two nations.

The tone of discussion in this thread is exceptional. It is wonderful to see so many people sharing thoughts on a topic, especially such a hot-button one, so civilly and with such consideration for each other’s opinions. The ability to have this type of discourse on this board is one of the big reasons I keep hanging out here.

[JAGold]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jair:

Pwyn/Devildog: I have also noticed the correlation between horses and music - Hey I play the flute too! As well as piano and guitar. Bill Steinkraus was a violinist and I think he said it had something to do with being able to connect the mind and hands in harmony. I have always felt that my ability to play musical instruments has helped me considerably to ride my horse correctly on the flat and in dressage.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe because rhythem is so important to both music and riding? Often, riders are good dancers, because they allow their body to follow the music much as they follow the horse’s stride or jump.

Of course, I’m one to talk…I can’t hold a tune in a paper bag

This is a good discussion and I’m glad to see it handled so well. Riding has been a part of my life since I was 8, and amongst the side effects of countless hours at the barn and weekends at shows was that I had gay friends and mentors before I knew what sexuality or homosexuality even were…and so I’ve never cared, except on occasion to be furious and helpless when I see good friends being by a world that can be mercilessly cruel.

–Jess

[brilyntrip]

ok so here’s my in put …Gay straight whatever…it is ridiculous to make such a big deal about someone else’s sexual orientation…It is a fact of life ,the differences are what keep things interesting…I do not care as long as no one is hurt.Kids should be left alone to find their own way.

[HAC]

I am still trying to figure out where in the Bible that God says that Homosexuality is a sin. It is mentioned in Leviticus, but one could argue that Leviticus technically can be interpreted as laws(ie man made). The story of Sodom and Gomorrah represents punishment for lacking respect for hospitality and the protection offered by the host. In fact there was a story, I believe the Book of Ruth that has a few refererences regarding a lesbian relationship between the Mother in Law and the daughter in law.

[Retrophish]

Why did the marry thread go away? I’ve actually been working today rather then lurking and next thing I know - >poof< gone.

Speaking of marriage, how many places allow gay marriages (whether they are rich or poor)?? I have a hard time seeing what the difference is between “normal” marriages and same sex. Why is this such a hard policy decision?

The place I work just instituted a policy that allows health care plan to cover same sex, gay couples. Pretty risque for the conservative company that Im with. The lawyers were going crazy with all the implications. For example if you are not married and are living with a hetero partner, cant claim them, but if you are living with the same sex and say you are gay, no problem.

I can see both sides, but it should be interesting to see what develops.

[N_B_T]

Erin and Peptalk and Duffy are right…sure wish we could/could have discuss/ed all topics this way!!

[Duffy]

Hey PacificSolo - Where’s that millionaire you passed on? LOL – Just kidding. . .My ex and I didn’t have much of anything when we got married. . .Well, except for quite a bit of credit card debt! (seemed quite fashionable at the time) He has moved on to someone else. It’s been painful, but it’s getting better. But, no, I too would not marry for just money. However, I would not determine not to fall in love with someone just because they did either! LOL But, I will also say that my criteria are not quite as naive as they were the first time around either. I will be much pickier all the way around with my next significant other, if I should be so lucky as to find one. On the other hand, (yet again LOL), deep down, I have to admit, I’m still a hopeless romantic, I’m afraid. . .

[Clarke_County]

But Good to Go, that would mean you’re only 27 years old right?..NOT!

[Snowbird]

Ideas can be very dynamic things, when people start to think for themselves they stop being sheep. We are watching an awakening, who knows where it will take us?

[jch]

This is wonderful to see intelligent, calm discussion like this! Fantastic! I admire the bravery of the people who have expressed different ideas. Pacificsolo, first of all, I am not trying to condemn or challenge you. I am just thinking “out loud”. Maybe the idea that all sin is equal in God’s eyes, is the fact that any intimate contact between homosexuals would have to be outside the union of marriage - of course, now maybe Vermont is changing that. At any rate, I think that you are accepting the person and that is the most important thing anyway. I should have no way of knowing what a person does in private and naturally, I would have no reason to judge another since the Bible says “…judge not lest you be judged, for whatever measure you hold to others will be held to you” Again, how great to be able to express diverse views in such a civilized manner!!!

[This message has been edited by jch (edited 07-14-2000).]

[Retrophish]

Hey Jair,

We must have been in the same classes!! Damn those professors - what were they thinking?

Maybe Im totally out of touch, but I dont see too much difference in tolerance levels of the city versus the country. I tend to like being in the country, but went to school in the city. Best I can tell, it depends on what the person looking WANTS to think. Maybe in the city, there is more to look at so no one is really paying too much attention to what orientation a person might be.

Im straight, but at times (especially in scary, goon infested bars) it was far wiser to seem “with” one of my girl friends. Damn if we didnt have the hardest time convincing some of those ex-con looking sorts that we were NOT interested. Maybe I dont play a good lesbian, but they wanted to believe we were hot for them. ICCKKK.

Then, on the other hand, sometimes when shopping with a girl friend, some of the older ladies will eyeball us like we are lesbians (do you know what look Im talking about?). That’s why I guess it is mostly determined by what the other person wants to think.

Same thing with some of the hate crimes. The criminal wants to think those bad, criminal-motivating thoughts. I wonder how many crimes have taken place that were motivated by the thought that a person was gay and in fact they were not? Never the less, I think you cant say tolerance is more prevelant in one area or another. I think the tolerance comes with the level of education and horse people tend to be more highly educated (because we are all so very smart!!) then society in general. What does everyone else think?

[Bertie]

This is really an interesting discussion.

Pacificsolo, it’s clear from your messages that you’re compassionate and kind. And you’re certainly entitled to a literal interpretation of the Bible as it applies to your life. My interpretation is that Christ taught love and kindness. I don’t believe he encouraged anyone to label another as a sinner. By example, he chose those who society looked down upon as his closest companions.

[Kryswyn]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pacificsolo:
I realize that without the theological background, it is very hard for those of you who are interested to understand why certain books of the Bible were not included, which are collectively called the Apocrapha…and as far as the story that was mentioned, the translation is not that they had sex, but that they did what any people would do who needed to keep warm…and for those of you who wonder why Christ didn’t miraculously create a warm home, perhaps you misunderstand his purpose on earth…he was and is the sacraficial lamb.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PacSolo: you missed my point, I think. The story I mentioned was hypothetical! I made it up to illustrate my belief that imperfect people of the male persuasion were the people picking what books/stories/legends went into the printed edition. If you tell me there really IS such a story in the Apocrapha, I’ll be really impressed w/ myself.

As to the ‘translation’ you mention of the 2 men “sharing bodily warmth” that was another way of showing a shortfall (IMVHO) of the Bible for those wishing to use it as a guide or rule book for every stituation. It is VAGUE! Every parable is open to discussion, for every quote used to vilify anything, there is another that can be used in its defence.

[Goodmudder]

AnnFs: If you read my post on the former thread, I never suggested that the topic should not be discussed by whomever cares to discuss it - but I believe that people should be able to make their own choices as to their own names being used - a common courtesy, I would have thought. No, I’m not prejudiced - just trying to be thoughtful of individuals.

[Jair]

Thanks Pepper. I was pretty sure I’d read about it. I keep hearing about a “Denim and Diamonds” party on the Florida circuit - is that an EAF fundraiser? I got the impression it was - I might be heading down to Florida to check out the shows next spring, and would interested in going.

[Inverness]

Why are we so hung up on sexuality in this country anyway? Love is love is love.

[Jair]

ARRGGGGHHHHHH !! Just had this beautiful eloquent response all typed in and the darn computer crashed! Will try again later when it calms down!

Thanks from me too Anne! Man, I am impressed to see this thread still going! Hope it keeps on for at least a few more days.

[HAC]

My story looking back was quite funny. When I was sixteen, I went out with the hounds on a daily basis. I met this older guy(19 yrs.) out there who was working for the master excercising horses. We hit it off and became good friends(well I had a huge crush on him)and hung out through the summer. I thought I had struck gold, a guy I could date and ride with(and who had a nice car). He asked me out towards the end of the summer, but my father would not allow it since he was an older guy. A few years later he came out and we had a laugh about the whole dating thing. I of course had to inform my dad that he would have been the safest date I ever had, since he was probably more interested in my guy friends than in me.

[Kryswyn]

Perhaps, since we have proved we can handle hot topics in a logical, non-attacking manner, now would be the time to settle the following issues:

Dehner vs. Vogel
Mane pulling vs. GroomaSolo Comb
1st & 3rd billets vs. 2nd & 3rd
Jack Russell vs. Corgi
Corgi (Pembroke) vs. Corgi (Cardigan)
Tailored Sportsman vs. Millers CR-7
Appaloosas vs. Anything
Chocolate vs. Vanilla
and finally, the longest lasting argument ever to appear in Ann Landers column,
Toilet Paper: Fall OVERthe roll vs. Hang UNDER the roll.

No kidding, folks, this has been a great thread.