Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[Mara]

I have a question regarding warmblood stallion contracts. I’m used to the Thoroughbred industry practices, which of course involve live cover only if the intent is to register with the Jockey Club.

At the top end of the TB world, the stallion owners/management sell seasons to cover specific mares. It’s not like a person can buy a season to, for example, Gun Runner and then show up with Plain Jane pony mare of unknown breeding intending to get a foal for their kids to show at 4H.

From what I know it’s not as selective on the lower end or in certain regional markets like New Mexico (no slam on NM - just citing as an example of a small market). Sometimes semen is made available to Quarter Horse breeders looking to add new blood.

Do the owners of the in-demand WB stallions sell semen to anyone who can pay, or are there controls in place to ensure as much as can be done that a certain stallion’s offspring are good representatives of the sire himself? I know the registries have standards, or most do. Just curious about stallion contracts themselves and what provisions they might include as standards to prevent the “doodleization” of their breed of choice by people like KS.

[iberianfan]

As to business vs hobby, I think maybe KS is playing fast and loose with those terms. Her lawsuit clearly states she is in business, and presumably, that’s how she files with the IRS. In her mind, she thinks of it as a hobby. At least that’s what I hope is true.

[Annie10]

I would not presume that at all…

[iberianfan]

Well that is the information she provided to her lawyers…

[Alterrain]

@Mara

Do the owners of the in-demand WB stallions sell semen to anyone who can pay, or are there controls in place to ensure as much as can be done that a certain stallion’s offspring are good representatives of the sire himself?

I believe this was answered somewhere already in these 2000 posts but the answer is: it depends. Some of the stallions you pay the money = they send the semen. Some of them, yes you have to submit the mare’s “resume” beforehand. Maybe someone more experienced than I will chime in with if this depends on stallions success/ recognition/ deceased or not/ etc…

[Scribbler]

@iberianfan

As to business vs hobby, I think maybe KS is playing fast and loose with those terms. Her lawsuit clearly states she is in business, and presumably, that’s how she files with the IRS. In her mind, she thinks of it as a hobby. At least that’s what I hope is true.

My impression is she says whatever she feels like to try to score a point in the moment. I wouldn’t worry about any of it being actually true.

[SpicyPRE]

I was just thinking the same thing…hmmmm…

[fordtraktor]

Don’t worry about the semantics of business v. hobby. For IRS and legal purposes, there are clear definitions. However someone describes it on the Internet is not really relevant to that, nor is it going to be evidentiary.

[Scribbler]

@Mara

I have a question regarding warmblood stallion contracts. I’m used to the Thoroughbred industry practices, which of course involve live cover only if the intent is to register with the Jockey Club.

At the top end of the TB world, the stallion owners/management sell seasons to cover specific mares. It’s not like a person can buy a season to, for example, Gun Runner and then show up with Plain Jane pony mare of unknown breeding intending to get a foal for their kids to show at 4H.

From what I know it’s not as selective on the lower end or in certain regional markets like New Mexico (no slam on NM - just citing as an example of a small market). Sometimes semen is made available to Quarter Horse breeders looking to add new blood.

Do the owners of the in-demand WB stallions sell semen to anyone who can pay, or are there controls in place to ensure as much as can be done that a certain stallion’s offspring are good representatives of the sire himself? I know the registries have standards, or most do. Just curious about stallion contracts themselves and what provisions they might include as standards to prevent the “doodleization” of their breed of choice by people like KS.

We’ve had this question raised and answered several times before. It’s a very interesting situation and I learned a lot from the discussion!

The prevalence of frozen semen has created a secondary market where brokers sell semen and then the customers buy and sell it, store it for ages, etc. KS herself had a FB post up last fall when this particular crisis broke offering tubes and partial tubes of a number of big name WB stallions, some deceased, that she’d collected and stored.

The fact that she is using old frozen semen is one of the reasons she uses ICSI which is much more expensive. Also she can use a dose of semen intended for one breeding to create multiple foals.

The registries use DNA.

Anyhow yes, due to the WB owners marketing frozen sperm, most of it is out of their control now as to where it ends up. Also the stallion owners are often in Europe. So it might be harder to enforce contracts if they did exist.

Edited to add: here is a completely unrelated thread on the topic of buying random frozen semen.

Rehoming rare frozen

I don’t want to get in trouble for advertising so am going to be vague. I had a brain fart and bid on what I thought was an AI dose of a very famous stallion. The opening bid was low enough that I thought I had no shot of getting it but figured it was worth a try. Then I read it again and realized it was actually an AI straw. It is enough for several ICSI attempts but that isn’t something I want to do. It is possibly enough for a half hearted attempt at AI but I don’t want to waste it since it’…

[SpicyPRE]

How Do You Report Suspected Tax Fraud Activity? | Internal Revenue Service

[Scribbler]

@fordtraktor

Don’t worry about the semantics of business v. hobby. For IRS and legal purposes, there are clear definitions. However someone describes it on the Internet is not really relevant to that, nor is it going to be evidentiary.

Yeah exactly.

[Annie10]

Like people don’t lie to their lawyers. Lol

[Scribbler]

You don’t get out of paying sakes tax and capital gains tax and income tax if you earn money off your hobby. On the other hand, if you are a business you can deduct expenses from profits which you can’t do as a hobby.

You can evade taxes whether it’s a formal business or a hobby by accepting cash or using Bitcoin. If your customers don’t demand a receipt proof of purchase or bill of sale. You can also give a receipt for less than the actual cash purchase if both parties agree.

Anyhow the hobby/ business split is irrelevant to tax fraud. But being a business confers so many legal and tax advantages like deductions of business expenses that almost everyone who can goes that route.

Having something formally registered as a business but describing it as a passion or even hobby (that is unrelated to main source of income) is not contradictory. How many folks with careers have “hobby farms” that they register as proper businesses so they can get the reduced farm tax by selling farmgate eggs and some hay off the back.acres? It’s still a hobby.

KS squirms and says whatever comes to mind, but this is not a big gotcha moment. However her track record since she left Arizona shows that whatever was said about her has been proven true over and over.

[good_booie]

You know what makes me happy? The fact the THIRTY THOUSAND PEOPLE have seen this thread. This [edit] will probably not be in business/hobby/passion much longer. Praying hard, her horses land safely.

[Scribbler]

@mlayton

What are your thoughts on DHH and DHH crosses? Thoughts or experiences on how they are for hunter/jumpers?

I am currently horse shopping and feel like I am seeing a DHH epidemic! Never seen or heard much about the breed until a year ago honestly, so I do not know a lot. I keep seeing DHH crosses being advertised as “Dutch” “Harness Warmblood” too… Majority I see are crosses with TB, QH, Hanoverian, CSH, ASH, CWB, Clydes.

Just to add - I found a DHH cross I really like as a project. I’ve been passing on the ones that look very “DHH” as i’m not keen on the way most are built. but this one doesn’t look DHH at all and has very nice movement and very nice conformation. I am not much of a competitor, just want to enjoy riding for fun now and do some shows here and there. I jump 1.10-1.25 at home, occasional bigger as singles or oxers but I have no desire to compete or do anything bigger at all. Would a DHH cross be suitable for what I wish to do? Again i don’t know a lot about the breed at all!

She can always find some skeezy trash farm with lowball prices in the back of nowhere to stash her broodmares. She’s got mares due in 2024 and she hasn’t followed through with her promise to do a herd dispersal and get out of the business so expect the show to move on up to another low cost of living area.

[good_booie]

IDK, horse world is getting smaller and smaller for her to spread her wings yet again. We can only hope!!!

[Scribbler]

@good_booie

IDK, horse world is getting smaller and smaller for her to spread her wings yet again. We can only hope!!!

There is Horse World and then there are super low end farms that are not part of Horse World.

[good_booie]

of course. le sigh. water does always seek its same level.

[BroncoMo]

Hell a few years ago I had one with a terrible dystocia; backwards, presenting three feet, and possibly upside down (never did get confirmation on that). The mare, obviously badly injured, spent 2 weeks at the hospital fighting for her life with numerous injuries and infections, and still came home her delightfully plump self. Might have lost 20 pounds from the ordeal, which for a 1300 pound BCS of 6, was hardly noticeable. So no, that mare didn’t drop 200 pounds from a red bag delivery.

[Mersidoats]

@Scribbler

You can evade taxes whether it’s a formal business or a hobby by accepting cash or using Bitcoin.

As long as you don’t sell the Bitcoin. The minute you sell, blammo - capital gains tax. If you sell immediately you can manage your gains and pay little to no tax. But that creates a paper trail. Anyway, tangent over. If you want to dodge the tax man, cash is still king.