Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Very interesting.

I also noticed in the post where you noted that the mare had apparently foaled out on dirty shavings, that Kate said she was at Brownland when this mare foaled.

Soooo…

Who was on foal watch? I doubt the mare was at a professional facility… they wouldn’t be bedding a stall that way for a mare who was about to foal.

I’m left wondering if this mare foaled out at the farm where Kate is renting dry stalls? Did anyone do foal watch? Kate seems unable to consistently find reliable help for feeding and mucking. Dealing with mares who are foaling? That is many many levels more involved and requires vigilance…

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

And… it turns out three other foals were also delivered on a minimal layer of shavings last year…

The Chacco Blue filly… not particularly fresh shavings

The DeNiro colt… you can see quite a bit of bare atall mat…

And the Jackaroo filly… looks like the stall was pretty darn dirty as well.

Soooo… I call BS on the claim that KS paid to have her mares foal out at a professional facility. This is not how a dedicated facility for knowledgeable management of broodmares would bed stalls for mares who are within the expected delivery window…

[MHM]

@Rumorhasit93

One is Lillie Keenan.

Which horse of hers is by Royce?

[Sarah616]

Velocity May, 2021 Belgian WB mare, out of Ikketiska Van de Noordheuvel

[MHM]

Ah, a young one. I was thinking I probably would have remembered if one of her show horses was by Royce. Thanks!

[IdahoRider]

@Montanas_Girl

This is a photo of my yearling (well, technically a two year old now) taken last month.

O.M.G!!! You have a Varian bred horse! I am so jealous!
Sheilah

[skydy]

Quote from Kate Shearer; "I’ve posted those pics again!!! That horrible ribby black in the one pic….hmmmm amazing in the other."

Do you really think that anyone is so stupid to believe that the photo of the emaciated foal you sold, that a friend off the buyer picked up out of concern for its welfare, was somehow doctored or photo shopped?

Please understand that most people on this forum are not idiots.
I have not seen one photo or video in which any of your horses look “amazing.”

I really hope that you will learn, even if it’s a bit late, about equine breeding, nutrition and husbandry.

If you are adamant about “paying other people” to do the basic work so you don’t have to do any hands on work or even basic supervision, that your “passion” requires, you obviously need to take a step back, find someone to educate you in equine breeding and nutrition as well as helping you understand how to hire and retain competent horsemen to take care of your “passion”.

If you can’t be bothered to study up on your “passion” then for god’s sake stop breeding horses.

[TwiSedai]

So, SOME of those horses she shared pictures of, I wouldn’t consider to be too terrible. Not great, but not terrible. But I’d expect to see horses looking like that in the backyard of someone who, say, doesn’t really know about horses, but had the land and decided to bring home a few cheap grade horses off Craigslist or a local FB group for the grandkids to sometimes ride around on, but that otherwise live feral.

Not someone professing to have an excellent breeding program, selling horses for high prices claiming they are very high quality. Those are NOT broodmares for show horses. An old (I think TB) broodmare at the barn I’m at that has a bit of trouble getting around sometimes and is getting close to the end looks WAY better.

And that’s not including the ones that are ribby, rack-looking, or have a coat that shows a clear lack of good nutrition.

[Kasheare]

And yet again not a single thing you said here is true. My goodness. I bought a horse when I was 15 that had broken multiple trainers arms by bucking them off. Ingot dumped daily, sometimes multiple times a day. It was not a medical issue but behavioral. I finally stayed on and got the courage to give the horse a seat on the butt with my crop and then he started turning around. The use of a crop is appropriate sometimes. That is what I said. And when I was 7 I was on an Ottb off the track that always went up. The trainer has me slide off the mare and she went over. No one flipped her. She never did it again though. Please be clear if you are going to say I support abuse. In addition many of the riders in the program as well as the parents(some trainers) said the clinic was actually beneficial and the snip-it that was posted was nothing compared to the huge positivity in the clinic. Please go look at hope Glynn. I don’t mind you relaying what I post but please make sure it is accurate as there is a huge difference as to what I posted above here and on fb and what you are trying to post

[Kasheare]

I bought two offspring of the mare and was impressed with them then tracked down and bought a 15yo mare because I loved her offspring. It wasn’t a rash decision as based on her conformation no one would breed her! She’s got a long back, short legged (15.1) ugly croupe, not super elastic hind end, nothing if I was seeing a horse for the first time I would stand and say wow. But wow is what all her foals have been. They all end up 16.3 plus no matter the stallion. They all have amazing minds. Sometimes things just work. But no I didn’t just find this mare in some auction or backyard. Took me a good 6 months to talk the owner into selling her to me. Here is her 3yo diabolo d’Esquelmes son. They have not started him yet. The grey mare in the video has harness on both sides actually and they train in ca and the horse is a barn favorite for her “easy mind”. And I’m so proud of her owner for doing all the work with her. They are a great team. A 60+ amateur owns the oldest and they do dressage in AZ. I kept her full harness line Jaleet daughter to continue on after I retired Bianca. And the Royce colt was her last foal. I only wish I could track down the foals she had earlier on. Her dam line is actually quite prolific being a pauliene daughter. Pauliene is very old old working lines which is exactly what this mare produces. You all think I just threw together cheap horses. Far from it. This mare had a pretty large price tag on her.

[BatCoach]

@Kasheare

I bought two offspring of the mare and was impressed with them then tracked down and bought a 15yo mare because I loved her offspring. It wasn’t a rash decision as based on her conformation no one would breed her!

So no one would breed her, but some one clearly did since you bought her offspring? Make it make sense Kate.

@Kasheare

But wow is what all her foals have been. They all end up 16.3 plus no matter the stallion.

So height is your only indicator of quality?

@Kasheare

Took me a good 6 months to talk the owner into selling her to me.

Which I’m sure she regrets.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@BatCoach

So height is your only indicator of quality?

I find that odd as well.

A 15.1 hand horse who struggles to make the required strides in combinations is one thing… but there are plenty of nice 16 - 16.1 hand horses who are lovely.

Not everyone wants 17 hands. Especially if it has conformation challenges… that can be even less pleasant to ride.

[fivestrideline]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Not everyone wants 17 hands. Especially if it has conformation challenges… that can be even less pleasant to ride.

I’d rather the 15.1 safe and sturdy thing than a 17 hand bull of a horse that is fighting itself to do what you ask. I’ve ridden plenty of draft crosses that are TOUGH to ride even if they’re perfectly willing and well schooled. If they are hot or pro ride sensitive? That’s no fun for anyone.

The comment that no one would breed a mare because of her conformation, so Kate actively sought out the few offspring of that poorly conformed mare to base her breeding program on is… wild. And pretty much sums up the situation.

[Montanas_Girl]

@IdahoRider

O.M.G!!! You have a Varian bred horse! I am so jealous!
Sheilah

I’ve waited two decades for this filly! She’s by Major Mac V and out of my Al Marah Horatio daughter.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@fivestrideline

I’d rather the 15.1 safe and sturdy thing than a 17 hand bull of a horse that is fighting itself to do what you ask. I’ve ridden plenty of draft crosses that are TOUGH to ride even if they’re perfectly willing and well schooled. If they are hot or pro ride sensitive? That’s no fun for anyone.

The comment that no one would breed a mare because of her conformation , so Kate actively sought out the few offspring of that poorly conformed mare to base her breeding program on is… wild. And pretty much sums up the situation.

I love 15.1 - 15.3. Especially if they have a decent stride and are a good jumper. I’m not tall, and middle aged, and it’s so much more fun to ride a horse that is a good size for me at this point in my life. There are a lot of adult ammy women aged 40-60 who are in the same boat.

And yes… 17+ hands with poor conformation? That’s physically not much fun to ride. If it’s hot and tricky and over 17? A lot of people don’t enjoy riding that.

The mare Kate used for so many of her foals was 17.3. And this was repeatedly brought up in her marketing. The majority of people I know who ride DON’T want a 17.3 hand horse unless it is a truly great athlete with a nice mind.

[trubandloki]

@Warmblood1

There is an interesting video of a gray horse on KS’s public FB being ridden where the gray is constantly swishing the tail. Looks tight in the back and uncomfortable.

This was my thought when I watched that video too.
KS is very proud of this horse and bragging about how it is proof of her breeding being amazing and ammy friendly.
I got a different opinion watching that horse in the video.

[fivestrideline]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

The majority of people I know who ride DON’T want a 17.3 hand horse unless it is a truly great athlete with a nice mind.

There was a very nice 18.1 hand hunter on my local circuit growing up. Huge, happy go lucky type. His riders had to WHOA the entire time around the ring because he was so large his lope would leave out a stride. I’m sure at the bigger venues on a long striding (like WEC) he would’ve been fine. I’ve also ridden an 18.1 hand draft cross that would do the adds if you let him. He had the stride of a pony!

All this to say that size isn’t everything - a big horse is still a bit more expensive than the equivalent hony, but size doesn’t make a poorly conformed and malnourished baby suddenly worth mid fives.

ETA the jumpers are trending smaller these days to make the time. It’s hard to turn and burn on a dinosaur

[trubandloki]

Darn, this mare looks horrible.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

It was a recip

I still haven’t seen any response from KS regarding where these mares foaled out. When the topic of the chestnut recip mare who had a red bag delivery came up, Kate claimed the mare was at a professional facility to dial out, and that the staff wasn’t closely monitoring her, and the mare was taken to EMCO after KS saw the emergency situation unfolding on video.

But… I wonder why she would only take one mare to a professional facility to foal?

If these other mares all ALSO foaled at a the same professional facility… YIKES. Terrible bedding practices. And wow… the bay recip mare is very thin (just like the chestnut recip mare was).

But I am skeptical at this point, and think there are significant gaps in this story.

[trubandloki]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Kate claimed the mare was at a professional facility

Remind me, did she say that the mare was at a professional foaling facility or just a professional facility?
Because the local back yard, dirty shavings boarding barn is a professional facility. I mean, you are paying to keep your horses there. No, they are not a professional foaling facility, but still a professional facility.

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

It was a recip

I guess one does not have to properly feed the poor recipient mares?