Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[Kasheare]

Have a nice night ladies! Talk amongst yourself. I have plans with people not on the internet. You all should try it. Until next amazing discussion

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Kasheare

I don’t need an under saddle record. I would rather breed quality that I know has produced lovely foals before purchasing. I would never breed these broken Down show horses. Half of them are genetic flaws clear and through yet Americans love breeding those since they can’t show them anymore. That’s backwards thinking

So you won’t breed a “broken down show mare”

But you will breed a mare who looks like this at age 18…

And of course there was the earlier video of the guy walking around on this poor mare… who was clearly unsound in the hind end. At the walk. And starving.

But you got a foal from her in 2023.

[good_booie]

Then please, for the love of God. Start analyzing your feed and general care program for your malnourished stock.

[Kasheare]

She wasn’t bred like this. Man get your facts right this was right after we weaned. She was bred at 17.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Kasheare

Not at all. I’m saying nothing about any other breeder just that I personally would not breed a broken down show mare. Of course pasture accident fine, freak thing ok, but most are broken for other reasons. That’s all. We all do what we do. You all spend your time on here obsessing about me. That’s fine. I spend time working, analyzing everything about horses and what I know works and does not, and just enjoying life. You should try it

Ah yes, I clearly spend all of my time on here obsessing about you. Meanwhile you’re working and analyzing. Yet somehow you have 221 (and counting) posts on this thread and I have a whopping 38. Now, math is not my strongest subject but…

Also, wondering how you know that I or anyone else on here do not enjoy life? Weird thing to say.

All that being said, I think you’ll find that many breeders won’t breed broken down show horses. So…that’s not especially unique.

But yeah, we all do what we do. Some of us run reputable breeding programs, have a good eye for quality, and feed our horses properly. Some don’t. Maybe expand your analyzing a bit?

[Dr_Doolittle]

Exactly this.

[Kasheare]

You would be surprised just how many breed broken down show horses. It’s rampant because after all they have a show record right

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Kasheare

Except the buyer fully knew everything about the mare and loved Ulandro mares. She 100% knew exactly what she was getting and has been offered much more than purchase price for the filly since. You all fail to realize there is a totally separate world going on outside your little coth forum

Are we talking about the starving Chacco Blue filly? Out of that big black harness mare by Ulandro? The one with the ewe neck?

That filly that was posted all over Facebook in mid November, and supposedly was (according to the public posts) a $25k weanling.

Here is what she looked like in mid November.

Apparently she has been getting fed more since leaving your care, and she now looks like this

So you are claiming now that someone has approached the owner of this filly, and offered them MORE than $25k for her?

Oh. Ok. Sure. /s

[K_VanOlst]

@Kasheare

I don’t need an under saddle record. I would rather breed quality that I know has produced lovely foals before purchasing. I would never breed these broken Down show horses. Half of them are genetic flaws clear and through yet Americans love breeding those since they can’t show them anymore. That’s backwards thinking

The level of backwards thinking here is you have no idea if any of your mares would even hold up to work because they… Don’t? They’re just half-starving uteruses in a field. Lord Almighty.

[trubandloki]

Were you dinner plans cancelled?

[CanteringCarrot]

@Kasheare

You would be surprised just how many breed broken down show horses. It’s rampant because after all they have a show record right

You’d be surprised that some do not ONLY look
at show records. They also look at why the mare’s career ended. Some also use recips and whatnot while the mare is still out there competing or being ridden regularly.

What drew you to your mares? The fact that they produced viable pregnancies? Or did they already have offspring on the ground out there being successful? I mean, imagine the mare also being successful and not broken down

I really don’t think it’s unreasonable, especially at certain price points, to be interested in the mare having a show record.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@CanteringCarrot

You’d be surprised that some do not ONLY look
at show records. They also look at why the mare’s career ended. Some also use recips and whatnot while the mare is still out there competing or being ridden regularly.

Some people look at the production record of the entire dam line, going back multiple generations. And what the offspring of the mares did.

You know… “blue hen” mares when it comes to TBs. Or mares who have produced “black type” winners.

And… when it comes to Warmbloods? Horsetelex is a great tool. It’s not a big deal if the dam herself has no performance record, but you can see that the dam line DOES have a record of producing performers.

But the dam line of the mare Kate used so many times (via ICSI)? That part of the mare’s pedigree was left 100% blank in Horsetelex.

https://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/2343492/hakuna-matata-kg

We found the mare’s full Pedigree in the ADHHA database. So it exists. And there’s Saddlebred pretty close up. Which is fine. Apparently it was approved for KWPN tuigpaard breeding. But that part was left out entirely in Horsetelex.

Anyway… it all just looks a bit shady when someone is trying to sell weanlings from this mare for prices like $25,000 and claiming that these babies are upper level prospects for dressage or jumpers.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@CanteringCarrot

You’d be surprised that some do not ONLY look
at show records. They also look at why the mare’s career ended. Some also use recips and whatnot while the mare is still out there competing or being ridden regularly.

Some people look at the production record of the entire dam line, going back multiple generations. And what the offspring of the mares did.

You know… “blue hen” mares when it comes to TBs. Or mares who have produced “black type” winners.

And… when it comes to Warmbloods? Horsetelex is a great tool. It’s not a big deal if the dam herself has no performance record, but you can see that the dam line DOES have a record of producing performers.

But the dam line of the mare Kate used so many times (via ICSI)? That part of the mare’s pedigree was left 100% blank in Horsetelex.

https://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/2343492/hakuna-matata-kg

We found the mare’s full Pedigree in the ADHHA database. So it exists. And there’s Saddlebred pretty close up. Which is fine. Apparently it was approved for KWPN tuigpaard breeding. But that part was left out entirely in Horsetelex.

Anyway… it all just looks a bit shady when someone is trying to sell weanlings from this mare for prices like $25,000 and claiming that these babies are upper level prospects for dressage or jumpers.

Good points about the damline.

I’m all for thinking or shopping outside of the box at times, which can come with lower pricing. So I am not necessarily turning my nose up at crosses or horses that aren’t totally dressage bred. If I am looking for a true dressage prospect, I feel as though a could get better bang for my buck with horses from other well known (well established and better reputations) breeding programs out there. Bonus points if the breeder/seller isn’t cray

I just don’t expect a foal with a good proven damline, and maybe even an actual proven dam to be worth the same amount as one that doesn’t have that, or one that is half harness bred. Nothing necessarily wrong with harness horses, but when I see proven dressage x proven dressage vs unproven harness x proven dressage that for some reason has a higher asking price, I’m going to wonder a bit.

[SpicyPRE]

Just not from the riding horse world

[Warmblood1]

@K_VanOlst

@Kasheare

I don’t need an under saddle record. I would rather breed quality that I know has produced lovely foals before purchasing. I would never breed these broken Down show horses. Half of them are genetic flaws clear and through yet Americans love breeding those since they can’t show them anymore. That’s backwards thinking

The level of backwards thinking here is you have no idea if any of your mares would even hold up to work because they… Don’t? They’re just half-starving uteruses in a field. Lord Almighty.

Very much agree.

I honestly think it’s best not to breed fragile mares that don’t hold up to competition. The reasonable approach to this problem would be to breed mares who had competitive records and who retired sound, not avoid proven mares all together.

Usually when a mare is proven by her offspring, the offspring have competition records and are proven in sport. Not the case here either.

[CanteringCarrot]

Oh, come on. This is all you need:

KWPN
Is fertile

[DVO]

It seems most people here have recently become aware of Kate. So, some might not know that this has been Kate for years. I became aware of her in 2016, and was told at that time, “She is crazy, and always fighting with everyone, but her braids look good.” My barn hired her, she did fine, whatever. I again came across her in 2018 and stupidly hired her myself, simply due to name recognition. When I told others who was braiding for me, I again was told, “Oh my god, have you followed her Facebook?? She’s insane and always fighting with everyone.” I had already committed to her, so used her, and lived to regret it (and then fired her).

What I’m thinking is this…that was 8 years ago, and her reputation was just the same. To me, that is a long, hard life of being mad, fighting, lying, and having to quit so many different types of shows (or, more likely, being run out). Now she’s “studying”…after claiming she will become an attorney AND a licensed mental health professional (the second of which is a clear lie; cannot speak to the attorney part). Indeed! She’s stated she’s quitting horses at least 3 times in the past year.

This seems to be such a very long, hard, painful life, and she clearly refuses help. I don’t know when she started “breeding,” but now that long, hard, painful life is being forced upon the horses she creates. I think we all know they are not being sold, she does not actually have buyers, or clients, and who knows what comes of the horses in the end. Such a heartbreaking situation.

[skydy]

@Kasheare

**I don’t need an under saddle record. I would rather breed quality that I know has produced lovely foals before purchasing.

This is where your knowledge about functional sport horse conformation comes into question.
You are breeding unproven harness mares with conformation faults, that apparently you can’t see, and the produce of your breeding are showing those faults.

That is not what any educated breeder would choose to produce for successful dressage or show jumping horses.

The very poor condition of your mares is not insuring that they are able to satisfy the nutritional needs of a foal in utero, or for the foals to properly develop after they are foaled. This is breeding 101 and you aren’t even there yet.

You seem to be breeding for color, because conformation is certainly a much lower priority on your list.

There are no new photos of the underweight mares and young stock.

As much as you “lol” and want to make this all about you and “your life”, it isn’t.

It’s about the neglectful care and breeding of horses. Please, if you are going to keep trying to make a buck from these animals, get some education in nutrition and functional conformation.

[FitzE]

@Kasheare

I just know which trainers I would personally have a horse with and which ones I would not

Yet you cannot figure out which barns to have your mares and babies with and which ones you would not. Over and over and over again. Sorry, that doesn’t speak well of your judgement.

Also, I would not be surprised if the veiled threats of knowing secrets and keeping them combined with your broadcasting people’s personal shortcomings all over social media on many occasions doesn’t cause barns and trainers to think twice about booking your services. I would tell my trainer to find someone else b/c I wouldn’t want you blasting all over the place that my horse ‘was atrocious and ill behaved’ and that my trainer is sus. Who the hell wants to pay to expose themselves and their clients to this kind of unprofessional, school-yard nonsense? I’m genuinely shocked you get repeat business.

FWIW, I find flip-flops to be the most repulsive footwear even conceived, and I mean that even at the beach. There is no possible scenario in which I would wear them around horses or in any professional setting. I even wear water shoes when lifeguarding. Wearing them in a ring with loose footing is just

[Temecula_Jumper]

This is exactly why my barn stopped using Kate’s braiding services after a couple times!