As someone with a real service dog, people who BS like this infuriate me. Really, Kate? What actual “service” skills do your dogs perform? Let’s see them in action. I dare you.
Once again, she manipulates circumstances to create the reality she wants.
Interestingly, this was briefly discussed at the end of the RDS Breeders’ Talk 2023. If I recall, it was discussed that based on the studies that should have an impact but Alan Waldman mentioned that in his experience, he had not found that the recip mares had an influence on the foal’s temperament and even when the recip mare couldn’t be handled the foal still took after its parent’s temperament after weaning. If anyone is interested, you can listen to the replay on the Big Talk for Breeders podcast and I believe there is a recording available to watch on YouTube. It was at the very end of the talk, I think in the last 10 mins.
I[quote=“weixiao, post:364, topic:789934, full:true”]
Interestingly, this was briefly discussed at the end of the RDS Breeders’ Talk 2023. If I recall, it was discussed that based on the studies that should have an impact but Alan Waldman mentioned that in his experience, he had not found that the recip mares had an influence on the foal’s temperament and even when the recip mare couldn’t be handled the foal still took after its parent’s temperament after weaning. If anyone is interested, you can listen to the replay on the Big Talk for Breeders podcast and I believe there is a recording available to watch on YouTube. It was at the very end of the talk, I think in the last 10 mins.
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That is very interesting. And I tend to agree but
I would say that is also a result of weaning at an appropriate time.
If you left them to wean themselves they would probably be more likely to learn the recipe mares behavior quirks.
But the cynic in me says malnutrition can make difficult animals handleable.
Their uteruses create cashflow. Ergo, service dogs.
On the other side, there was an article (not recently) by the guy that bred nabob de reve who came to the conclusion that the heavy, quiet drafty mares they were using were having an adverse impact on foal personality.
My bet is it’s somewhere in the middle, there’s the genetics aspect of temperament involved and mare personality can influence that to some degree. I could see if you had an especially quiet foal, a really dull mare is going to nurture that trait 24/7. But maybe a hot/reactive mare wouldn’t have as great an impact, especially in a well handled environment because her opportunity to be reactive can be limited, whereas the placid/dull mare not being curious/interested in the environment is a more 24/7 experience.
Either way I’m sure it’s something serious breeders struggle with, which means it’s never been a concern of KS
Same question here; I was always told that the mare and her behavior has a huge impact on baby. How does a rank, difficult mare serve as a good mom/foster mom?
While how it works is still quite the mystery, I’d imagine epigenetics from the surrogate do also play some role in the wellbeing, health and behavior of the foal.
Not a straight line to surrogates, but I’ve also seen some absolutely rank weanlings/yearlings turn into really lovely and easy-going horses by their 3yo year. Much like puppies, I’m not sure that first-year behavior (bottle babies aside) is much of an indicator of what the mature horse will be like.
I’ve been around a bunch of recip mares and foals. A vast majority of the time, the foals take after their donor mare and stallion in attitude. One that I distinctly remember was a QH foal that was carried by an Arab-type mare. Mare was super flighty and averse to human contact. Foal was just like his parents - would meet you at the gate and you could scratch all over him without issue. It was easier to catch the foal in the pasture than the mare. And we did our own ETs, so mares lived on the farm year round and were well taken care of. She wasn’t shuffled around.
When I had a mare turn aggressive, I chose to not handle the mare or foal at all so the foal could not see/model her behavior. He was weaned at 3 months. Handling her resulted in attacks I did not want him to think were an option in life.
Now he is with his nanny pony, I am happy with that choice because he absolutely does all sorts of things he was taught by the nanny and not his mother. Down to cleanliness—mom was a disaster in the stall, but nanny is very neat and poops in one spot in the paddock. Foal, who is 7 months old now, poops in the spot nanny tells him to.
She is old and arthritic, so when she reprimands him she just pops her butt up a few inches instead of kicking. He does exactly the same. It’s hilarious watching a very, very athletic WB foal imitating a 30yo arthritic pony!
Funniest part is they sent DNA in because they can’t believe this filly is a weanling. She is too big and has too long of a mane to be a weanling per them. Can’t make this up. So yes totally stunted in growth
100lb bale of arizona alfalfa with a feed value of 229…yes 1/5 a bale a day. That’s 20lbs of very rich hay that is not available in FL. That is what we feed on the west coast. Feel free to inquire with anyone on that. Adding any type of enriching “grain” on top will cause issues. But that is alright as many on the east coast and midwest never see hay like what I have. And any former employee…the dog sitter in Ocala who never came except once a day (Stephanie Gallihugh) who has multiple people with witness statements against her and who I literally had to change the locks on my home, or Chantelle Santos who wanted to handle my horses and her guy kept not showing up and so she was fired? Then she went on a rant about things based from full service facilily Alex Brock? At the end of the day yes it has been completely on my watch. But I would love for the owner of the filly in question to share all the pics she has sent me of her…remarkably different than what is posted. Feel free to reach out to owner Sarah Shelor on the filly.
In fact I am. As I said there are many details that have not been released but the farm itself had 9 different 911 calls that week alone after firing an assistant farm manager. I was relayed this information from the sheriff itself. LOL!
Well, look who showed up.
If you look back at previous posts, there are numerous photos that you took and posted yourself showing mares and foals in poor condition. So obviously you didn’t think that’s a problem.
And honestly. Every single.time you hire someone or board a horse or apparently also a dog, they somehow betray you and starve the animals. Nobody believes you aren’t complicit in this. You are the owner. It’s on you to make sure your animals are healthy.
You have posted on FB that you will be doing a herd dispersal sale with an auction company. Is this really happening?
Qfp
Qfp
No dog in this fight, but I , too, breed and raise horses in central FL. I also have a forage-based program.
And I will back up every nutritionist that says “hay alone” is not enough. There is no hay out there that is perfectly balanced for a growing horse or lactating mare. I have fed the rich western alfalfa free choice. And used an appropriate ration balancer to complement that alfalfa hay. I’m currently feeding a gorgeous orchard/alfalfa mix free choice, along with beet pulp and a proper ration balancer. My horses eat an average of 25lbs of excellent hay per head per day. Their solid toplines, healthy guts, and shiny coats are a testament to a successful diet. Their protein and energy needs are met. My weanlings are at a healthy weight with cold joints; and as they grow up to go through the TB sales, the vast majority of them have clean xrays (even the big moose-y ones!).
I think it’s fine to feed unlimited alfalfa if you can properly balance the phosphorus, magnesium, and other necessary nutrients, and if the horses don’t get overweight from excess calories.
Photo of fall weanlings with their unlimited hay buffet. (The filly with the big pointed star went on to sell for six figures as a two year old.)
MANY of your photos show thin mares and foals in a wide range of places and dates.
If you have photos of this filly showing them in good condition when they left your farm then why not share them, why let the owner bad mouth you if it’s not true and you have pictures of the horse before sale in good condition AND pic the seller themselves sent you.
Issues like being anywhere over a 2/9 body condition score?
LOL?
The fact that you think that anything related to your appalling neglect of these animals is funny, is disgusting.
Your horses are in bad shape. They need veterinary and farrier attention, grooming and proper nutrition. You ought be ashamed of yourself. You don’t have the knowledge or the means to be breeding horses and your own words and photos prove it.
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