Damn, I typed out response and somehow deleted it. 
I agree that if breeders lie, in the U.S. it would be impossible to enforce the prohibition of ICSI.
Someone like Kasheare though, would be easy to catch since she produces several foals from the same mare in the same year, and that would be noticed by the registry if she was using a Swedish Warmblood mare.
Embryo transfer is still allowed, though, and that also produces several foals with the same dam 
To be clear, I think this is a really interesting stand from the registry, and probably a good direction. Iâm just SO CURIOUS about the nitty gritty of how it will actually work!
And, another question along what ourâŠuhâŠfriend (lol) here has goingâŠwhat about the embryos created before the mandate of no ICSI, but not implanted? Tough place for a breeder to have embryos that were collected & created when ICSI was allowed, but because they were put on ice rather than implanted, they canât be SWB. Kate has loads embryos in a tank and she canât be the only one 
Yes, I canât remember when the rule takes effect, but maybe people with embryos better get cracking.
Iâm interested in whether you think that veterinarians who do Warmblood ICSI in the U.S. will be aware of the rule (it seems like it is enough of a news topic in the WB breeding world that they should be aware of the restriction) and if they are scrupulous, wonât they refuse to do the procedure on Swedish mares or do you think the implications are to complicated for vets to bother with.
she has such sweet eyes. poor girl.
I doubt vets in NA are going to pay one whit of attention to a rule passed by a Euro registry. Besides, it doesnât matter if the procedure is done on a Swedish mare - the breeder can take the mare to another registry for breeding approval and voila! She gets a registered foal (assuming of course the stallion used is approved or acknowledged by that registry, and the DNA comparisons confirm parentage).
I mentioned in an earlier post that I though some people would just avoid the registry if they were intent on using ICSI.
I wonder if other registries will follow the Swedish lead. I suppose it depends on their self interest.
Thatâs so sad. What a beautiful mare.
That article said
ICSI foals born in 2024 can still be registered with the studbook. The decision does not affect the reproductive technique of Embryo transfer (ET).
So it sounds like whatâs cooking currently is it? If itâs not in a mare now, itâs not eligible for SWB.
I didnât really pick this up before, but that article also says
âThe change is made with regard to the Animal Welfare Act, as it [ICSI, I think?] is a prohibited intervention in Sweden,â SWB stated.
So with no ICSI in SwedenâŠtheyâre targeting breeders in Sweden who are shipping mares to other countries for ICSI, and SWB being produced via ICSI in other countries?
Oh, I missed that as well. Breeders in Sweden are attempting to get around a rule that is already in place?
Iâm not sure itâs a âtrying to get aroundâ thingâŠif you canât do something in one country but can in another, and you ship horses to a foreign clinic for ICSI, thatâs just abiding by your local laws.
I wonder how many other countries ban it, or how many might be considering something similar?
It def makes sense that the SWB registry is taking a stand like âSweden has determined this is an animal welfare issue, and as the representative of Swedish horses on the world stage, weâre not going to allow it for any horse in our registry.â
Super curious if others follow suit!
I mean that they must have noticed that breeders been trying to get around the spirit of the rule and Swedish Warmblood has noticed and are putting their foot down.
I agree, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
chiming in here on ICSI as it appears that KS has used it as she has been able to get multiple embryos out of a single dose of semen.
She freely admits using ICSI - even brags about it.
And I once again wonder why she is so proud of subjecting a mare she supposedly loved to that grueling and invasive procedure time and time again. I can only surmise that she didnât really love the mare - she loved only her ovaries.
This is why. $$$$$$$
Along those lines, I thought this was interesting, too:
https://picobellohorses.auction/en/icsi
âIf successful, up to 50% cheaper compared to embryo transferâ
Itâs not clear in their statistics how many foals are actually born. Theyâre in Belgium.
It sounds as if they have a better success rate than Kashearâs repro vet (if what she says is to be believed.)
Does anyone know a ballpark price on the two different procedures?
EMS has some price info on their website:
Not like it breaks it down to $$ per viable, implantable embryo, though. You generally get one each cycle with embryo transfer? Sometimes a couple? Multiples with ICSI. ICSI can be done when mares arenât naturally cycling, or even when theyâre already pregnant (which totally blows my mind.) With ET you need an open, cycling mare. ICSI uses a small fraction of a semen dose per embryo; embryo transfer needs the whole thing.
I donât know what the current range is for ETs but one of the articles I pointed to upthread mentions $8,000 - $12,000 USD per try for ICSI. That doesnât include the stud fee or the cost of upkeep for the recipient mare, or the costs associated with foaling out, vet expenses for a foal, yada-yada.
I am curious about that success rate for ICSI. Where did you see those stats?
One of the articles I pointed to upthread said this:
The ICSI procedure costs around $8,000 - 12,000 USD in the U.S.A., not counting the stud fee, but the success rate is small. Out of 14 follicles there will be 7 oocytes of which around 5 will mature and can be injected. It often leads to only 1 embryo and sometimes takes between 1 to 3 tries before you have a foal.
That quote was from an experienced repro vet in the U.S. So if 5 of 7 retrieved oocytes mature enough to be implanted in a recipient mare, thatâs about a 70% success rate for the those stages (retrieval of the oocyte, fertilization, and implantation). But it sounds as those the implanted eggs are so very fragile that the risks go way up that a live foal will result - only a 20% chance of getting a foal on each try.
Someone please check my math, Iâve only had a few sips of tea this morning. 
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