Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Yes. All of this.

Who knows what the full story is. Kate seemed to acquire him as a 2 year old, and she says she then sold him for “low 5 figures” to Jessica as a 2 year old. Now we see that Kate still has the papers, and is being pushy on Jessica’s FB ad, commenting about this horse. Jessica is marketing the horse as a DHH, Kate is in the comments talking about his KWPN papers. Jessica has the horse listed online for $30,000, and a FB ad from May also has $30k as the price… yet Kate is claiming on this thread he’s actually priced at $50,000.

I mean, I guess it’s possible that the horse showed over the summer, did well, and has moved up and is schooling 3rd now, and his price has gone up by another 20. But… I’m skeptical.

Sigh. Kate markets how she markets, and it’s aggressive. Her claims about her horses as “prospects” are over the top, her prices do not align with the market, and this all can be a significant turn off to buyers who are actually somewhat experienced and knowledgeable. When she does this in relation to a particular horse who is actually being marketed by a well known professional… it leads to questions about what is actually going on here. It’s not a good look and not helpful to the sales process.

[Sdel]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Kate markets how she markets, and it’s aggressive. Her claims about her horses as “prospects” are over the top, her prices do not align with the market, and this all can be a significant turn off to buyers who are actually somewhat experienced and knowledgeable. When she does this in relation to a particular horse who is actually being marketed by a well known professional… it leads to questions about what is actually going on here. It’s not a good look and not helpful to the sales process.

And don’t forget the ad about the black yearling (that she wanted mid 5s for) I posted with the trainer name blacked out. I suspected something like Kate over stepped with her post and a realization occurred on the part of the trainer that expectations were not going to match reality and fall out happened.

Trainer dodged a bullet.

[Libera]

She was asking mid fives for the black For Pleasure filly as soon as it hit the ground… saw multiple people tell her that was way overpriced but Kate said it was a fair price considering the studfee and costs she had made to produce said filly, and she would be sold in no time… hmmm. Guess that didn’t quite work out

[DownYonder]

Honestly, if I had any interest in this horse, among the first questions I would ask Jessica are “Do you have the papers, and can I see them? And if you don’t have them, why not? Where are they?”

I’m not paying a certain price for a horse that supposedly has registration papers from a big gun registry unless I know for certain that those papers will be turned over to me with the horse. If there is any question about the whereabouts or status of the papers, I would only pay a discounted price and tell the owner I will pay the balance when I receive the papers. Stuff like this is easier to enforce in Europe where horses cannot travel without their passports, but in NA there is no teeth in regulations from USDA, USEF, or any other body that helps protect the interests of buyers. Way too often, someone’s new horse arrives without its registration paperwork and it is often a nightmare trying to get the issue resolved. And that may be another reason why so many people are inclined to import from Europe instead of deal with an NA-based breeder or trainer. At least you know your new import is going to land in NA with its passport and the quarantine facilities tend to be very reliable about ensuring those papers accompany the horse when it leaves. Most commercial shippers delivering horses from quarantine facilities are also good about delivering the horse with its papers - many of the ones I used in the past would put the papers in the horse’s travel kit (often its blanket bag).

[Temecula_Jumper]

Funny that she sold the horse for low fives when here she says he’s $8,500.

[trubandloki]

@DownYonder

Honestly, if I had any interest in this horse, among the first questions I would ask Jessica are “Do you have the papers, and can I see them? And if you don’t have them, why not? Where are they?”

Jessica does not say anything about the horse having papers in her ad. It is just KS who brings them up.

[SpicyPRE]

Then why is he put as evidence of her breeding? Thats not really a question for you. Is she just promoting the DHH? My guess is that KS purchased the gelding for next to nothing.

[Arlomine]

Really, this is just a young horse in an awkward growth stage period, and caught in an unfortunate moment. I this horse will probably grow up to be just fine. Yes he’s skinny. It’s not fair to judge many horses based a photos of them as a two year old.

[2bayboys]

@Temecula_Jumper

Funny that she sold the horse for low fives when here she says he’s $8,500.

Oh woops. My guess is the current owner paid less than that. Also concerning that the previous owner still seems to have possession of the registration documents. Messy.

[Annie10]

@Arlomine

Really, this is just a young horse in an awkward growth stage period, and caught in an unfortunate moment. I this horse will probably grow up to be just fine. Yes he’s skinny. It’s not fair to judge many horses based a photos of them as a two year old.

I’m not even looking at skinny and weedy.
I’m looking at the set of his neck, his back and his gross rear end conformation

[Aussie_2020]

I would never share a pic of my horse caught under a panel of fence. She’s a menace to all animals in her care.

[saratoga]

Really, this is just a young horse in an awkward growth stage period, and caught in an unfortunate moment. I this horse will probably grow up to be just fine. Yes he’s skinny. It’s not fair to judge many horses based a photos of them as a two year old.

For sure, and it seems like she posts the most unflattering pictures ever- shots where the horse is in a bad moment or unflattering angle, when they are thin/ungroomed, and also the photos where there is all junk and clutter in the background. It’s very bizarre for anyone wanting to market their horses, let alone for higher end buyers. But the people on here that keep saying the horses are worthless, that is just as bizarre to me. Don’t you guys know that horses like Standardbreds and DHH can absolutely be trained and ridden in a way to develop other musculature so that they don’t move in the stereotypical way a driving horse would? And both of those breeds tend to have awesome characteristics that make them really nice horses to work with.

[CuriosoJorge]

@saratoga

Don’t you guys know that horses like Standardbreds and DHH can absolutely be trained and ridden in a way to develop other musculature so that they don’t move in the stereotypical way a driving horse would? And both of those breeds tend to have awesome characteristics that make them really nice horses to work with.

You either pay for the horse or you pay for the training. If I’m an amateur looking to do the 1.1m jumpers, or the 3’3 AO hunters, I would rather start with a horse whose physical conformation isn’t stacked against him from the start.

[DownYonder]

@trubandloki

@DownYonder

Honestly, if I had any interest in this horse, among the first questions I would ask Jessica are “Do you have the papers, and can I see them? And if you don’t have them, why not? Where are they?”

Jessica does not say anything about the horse having papers in her ad. It is just KS who brings them up.

Yes, I get that. I probably should have said the first question I would ask anyone who is selling or marketing a horse is “Where are the papers, I want to see them, etc.” And I would make sure that the sales contract includes a clause that the horse’s papers will be signed by the seller and turned over to the buyer with the horse or within a short (specified) timeframe. If the latter, I would also put in the contract that I was paying a (specified) discounted rate for the horse with the balance due AFTER the horse AND its papers are in the buyer’s possession.

Edited to add that if I don’t know the seller/marketer well enough to implicitly trust them, or get even a whiff that something fishy is going on vis-à-vis the horse’s registration papers, I would contact the registry and ask who is the last registered owner - and then make a decision as to whether it is worth going through with the purchase.

[trubandloki]

@saratoga

It’s not fair to judge many horses based a photos of them as a two year old.

If someone is trying to sell a horse using the photos as a two year old, what else is one to use to judge? How does one buy an expensive 2 year old if they can’t judge it on how it looks?
The general conformation is there to judge at 2.

@saratoga

But the people on here that keep saying the horses are worthless

I think the only one saying this is KS accusing us of saying that.
Saying a horse is not worth what the price being asked, is not even close to saying it is worthless.

[Annie10]

You don’t take a corvette to a tractor pull and vice versa.

[saratoga]

@CuriosoJorge

. If I’m an amateur looking to do the 1.1m jumpers, or the 3’3 AO hunters, I would rather start with a horse whose physical conformation isn’t stacked against him from the start.

Certainly if you are a person whose objective in buying a horse is doing either of these, these horses would not be my choice. And I don’t think they would be the choice of anyone who IS strongly motivated to accomplish these results, regardless of what marketing techniques are used. Because there are naturally better suited horses for it and said people tend to be working with trainers and/or be knowledgeable themselves and want the best possible chance to reach their goal. But I think the horses could end up being able to do anything though, depending on a lot of different variables. And I think overall they look like nice horses. People repeatedly on this thread have called them garbage and also have been generally insulting towards harness type horses.

[endlessclimb]

@Aussie_2020

I would never share a pic of my horse caught under a panel of fence

Exactly what I was thinking. What the heck kind of advertising is that?

[LSBC]

I think part of the problem is their price. I wouldn’t pay five figures for an unproven foal that doesn’t look spectacular. Would I pay 4? Probably. I had a friend who bought a lovely warmblood yearling for $7k just a few years ago with drastically better conformation than Kate’s offspring. She had/has much nicer gaits and had been handled pretty extensively. I think Kate is pricing the average person who might want these horses out.

[DownYonder]

@endlessclimb

@Aussie_2020

I would never share a pic of my horse caught under a panel of fence

Exactly what I was thinking. What the heck kind of advertising is that?

I would be wondering what kind of damage was done to the neck and spine while struggling under the fence, and if said damage was going to cause neurological or other issues down the road as the horse matured.