I could be wrong on this, but, isnt this the reason why there is a KWPN NA registry? Years ago when I was more involved with breeding, I was part of some conversations about why North America maintained a separate book from the original one. The KWPN book from the motherland was/is way more strict.
Well, the motherland has accepted Saddlebred and Hackney blood into their tuigpaard breeding at times.
I think the main issue with this whole situation boils down to the crossing of harness types with riding types, and then throwing a label on the foal that it is therefore a riding typeâŠ. even though the harness bred dam has zero performance record under saddle. I understand that KWPN has a system of rules and this is how things work. BUT⊠they have diluted the value of their brand with this mess, to a certain extent.
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They opened the tuigpaard book up a little bit due to problems with inbreeding. Most people do not use tuigpaard mares to breed sporthorses so itâs usually not really a problem. But the tuigpaard direction is a little different from the riding horse directions, with itâs own performance requirements and different judges at keurings.
I doubt any of these crosses would make Ster in the riding horse direction where they are judged on dressage or jumping ability and promise as a riding horse in their chosen direction. To become an licensed or approved stallion they have to go through a bloodline review which a TP cross would not pass most likelyâŠ
Sometimes a jumping bred mare is not a great jumper but an exceptional mover and in that case the owner can choose to change the breeding direction, to have a better chance at a Ster predicate.
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I was thinking along similar lines, WRT my 2 Mogan mares. Theyâre both palomino, with the cream gene tracing to Night Tide very far back, but little to no overlap in the first 5 generations:
If you go back further, youâll find the same horses (especially Upwey Ben Don and Jubilee King), and they both have hundreds if not thousands of crosses to Figure himself⊠but the last thing Iâd call them is closely related! Not surpringly, Feronia is a rangey 15 hands mare who does not scream âMorgan!â at all, while Lola is a compact 13.3 hander who could not be taken for anything but a Morgan.
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I get pretty excited when I see a big jump in the number of comments on this thread, because itâs always so entertaining. But this time?? This time I am pretty sure I am now dumber for having read the 3/4 versus 75%, and close relatives versus distant increasing that percentage. 
[Edit]
All the lies. Holy 
/
âŠ
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This exactly. There was a colt KS had listed at one point and he was marketed as a stallion prospect in the ad. She said she submitted his pedigree for approval. Well, uh, right. Anyone can submit any pedigree for approval - the important part is has the pedigree been approved? I felt it was misleading.
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She sold him to a performance home, I think.
Hopefully he goes on to be a nice gelding for someone.
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Do you really think that showing your poor horse husbandry and the incredible lack of knowledge you exhibit as a âbreederâ is something to âwoot wootâ about?
Are you thanking people for noticing your shortcomings as a âbreederâ?
Please stop. Learn from experienced breeders, find way listen and not to think you know best.
You have nothing to prove except that you want to do better, and that you care enough to do better.
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Exactly. The volume of responses on this thread is really not to be celebrated. However even with 6000+ responses there are still so many unanswered questions.
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There will always be many unanswered questions because the subject is a chronic liar, and narcissist and on overall highly repugnant human being. This thread could go on for 10 years and it will not change.
Every time I go after the subject of this thread, I am thinking of the slipped foal in that filthy stall next to a suffering foundering mom. I am going after her because of that poor grey mare who she happily put people on to ride AND show off like it was a good thing. I am going after her every time I see that horribly starved black filly. I am going after her because of her overall lack of knowledge on how to supply basic care for her animals while she is out of town most of the time. I go after her because she is straight up a puppy mill horse breeder. So even though all the lies and gloating are insufferable, at the end of day itâs because of the poor horses.
I am thrilled some of them got away from her and are in AZ under someone elseâs care. Itâs a start.
I donât care if a âmovie starâ or president Nixon rises from the grave and buys a horse from her. What I do care about is the horses welfare. Plain and simple.
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A-FREAKINGMEN. 
(I copied this in case âa certain someoneâ gets her panties in a wad and complains to mods to have it taken downâŠ)
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Interestingly there is a stallion here that the north american book would not take due to breeds in the pedigree that are not accepted and they somehow managed to get him registered with the dutch book. Kind of apropos of nothing on this thread but the KWPN-NA is definitely not less strict about pedigree approvals.
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Interesting.
Care to share the stallionâs name? I am curious⊠
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Approved or registered?
That makes a BIG difference. Also would be interesting which book he was registered in. Due to different laws in Europe, every studbook has to have a registration option for horses that may not even be of that breed. Like technically, you could register a Shetland pony with the Friesian studbook, but it will be in a Hulpboek (or auxiliary book) NOT breeding stock⊠so the KWPN in the Netherlands may not have had a choice but to âregisterâ this horse
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If you want to DM me I am happy to share privately but I donât have the energy to open that whole can of worms.
Presumably just registered since it would be cost prohibitive to ship a horse to the netherlands for stallion testing, but whatever book he is in, the NA registry said no and the Europeans said yes. Iâm only throwing it out there as a counterpoint to suggesting that the north american arms of the studbooks are less stringent and the implication of perhaps less quality- I donât think thatâs fair or accurate at least in the case of KWPN.
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This is because of the close inbreeding within the DHH population in Holland. The resulting foals can go in the Reg. B, and then as they age can move up to the studbook upon passing the health requirements, performance testing and studbook presentation.
There are breeders that are using this procedure as it is intended, to maintain the DHH type and movement, while preserving the genetic diversity.
Some proper examples were shown this year at the KWPN Keurings:
DHH Keuring - Indiana 2024
Doubtful there are many Dutch breeders putting harness blood to their Dressage or Jumping mares. IF that was a thing, theyâd have already been doing it.
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Not to summon the creature by saying her name three times, but didnât she bring her horses to the KY inspection? Above she said she was taking 3 to the final KY inspection. I donât see any here but I also may not know the names of her crop (just looking for the âKGâ).
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I am assuming there was some questionable lineage in the pedigree of the stallion you are referring to, so KWPN-NA declined to register him. So his owner pled her case to KWPN-NL, who gave him Register B papers for the reason Libera mentioned.
In short, KWPN-NA is not under a governmental requirement to register all horses brought to it. KWPN-NL is however under such a regulation. And if the stallion is standing for sporthorse breeding in NA, I can think of only a few third-tier registries that would license him (AWR, AWS, ISR/ONA). I do not think the first or second tier registries would consider licensing him (KWPN-NA or KWPN-NL, AHS, Oldenburg/GOV, Westfalen, Rhinelander, etc.).
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Maybe they didnât make First Premium?
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