Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[enjoytheride]

@fordtraktor

Every foal registered with KWPN-NA is DNA tested for sire and dam. It is part of the process, whether or not you go to a Keuring. You send in hair from the foal.

They must also be microchipped. They send you the chip and a vet must insert it, then fill out the paperwork before you receive your registration papers.

Quoting again.

It is entirely possible that one could purchase a foal/weanling/in utero and then when the breeder sends in the DNA it comes back as to be something else, but that should be handled in the contract you carefully examine and sign.

I was recently aware of the exact situation in which someone purchased a yearling and when the breeder finally sent in the DNA another stallion was the sire. The breeder did produce papers, just not the papers the buyer expected and the buyer was rightfully pissed but had no contract so was selling the yearling.

[Ambitious_Kate]

And she saw VHMs comment and said, now wait just a minute, there…

[omare]

Ears up and jumping with such joy!<3(and driver going with it!)

[leighbo009]

So these horses, if you where to get one (I’m not, just hypothetically), what would be your first steps? (due to weight, malnourishment, etc?)

Worm? With what? or fecal?
What would be your refeeding steps?
Anything else you would do?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

You would need to coordinate with a vet when worming these youngsters. It can make a baby colic if there is a mass die off of parasites. So an owner would want to be prepared, and have a plan for symptoms to watch for and how to address. But… perhaps worm with panacur power pack, then talk to a vet and come up with a nutrition plan that is a good fit for the horse’s current condition, age and stage.

[MorganSercu]

Top to bottom most complete veterinary examination ever with blood work, fecals, paid consults with equine nutrition experts then sobbing in the corner of a stall mourning the huge deficit this poor creature has and then the big financial hit your retirement account and/credit cards just took and will continue to take to move the needle for this horse.

[Nootka]

Likely not. Most frozen does not carry a LFG

[fordtraktor]

@enjoytheride

I was recently aware of the exact situation in which someone purchased a yearling and when the breeder finally sent in the DNA another stallion was the sire. The breeder did produce papers, just not the papers the buyer expected and the buyer was rightfully pissed but had no contract so was selling the yearling.

If you buy a weanling that is by Y stallion out of X mare, and the DNA comes back Z stallion, you should be able to get a refund as a matter of tort law. This person should take the breeder to small claims court.

[enjoytheride]

For them it was easier to sell the horse but I agree…

[IPEsq]

I think likelihood of a whoopsie embryo mistake here is pretty small, and I doubt she would intentionally mix up stallions. Her whole business model relies upon a perceived value conveyed from these stallions to give her a prayer of recouping costs much less making any money. The problem is that the value is unrealistic given the crosses made, not even taking into account the effects of poor nutrition and care on potential performance.

[vxf111]

I’m not really seeing a tort (maybe if you’re creative quantum meruit or possibly fraud if you could show intent) but I agree you’d have some civil cause of action like breach of contract.

[EmilyM]

Yes

[vxf111]

I don’t find it suspicious that she has multiple in uteros and embryos from the same stallion. Presumably she’s got a bunch of eggs at the facility and if they’re thawing the semen why not try for a couple fertilized eggs at the same time to increase your chances. And if you make them, why not implant them, again to increase your odds.

I mean setting aside all the OTHER parts that make no sense at all, if I had a straw of very good semen and a bunch of eggs of the mare I wanted, I might make a couple at the same time to increase my odds of making sure I got the foal I was hoping for at the end. And if I got an extra, I could choose between the foals and keep the one I preferred and sell the other.

Now… would I do it with these mares? No. Would I ever spend the $$$ on this process as a BUSINESS MODEL for selling foals? No. But if I was already down the rabbit hole of thinking I wanted that cross and was spending the money, I’d make more than one embryo if I could. So I don’t find the multiple Nabab de Reve foals to be a suspicious occurrence that makes me think one must really by by a different sire.

Plenty else about the whole thing makes me scratch my head, but not the multiples of some crosses. If you’re making one you might as well make two for belt and suspenders.

[vxf111]

@Edre

Hopefully as someone ostensibly studying law

As I understand it, she went to law school and graduated. She has not passed a bar exam and been admitted to practice. I thought a year or so ago she said she was signed up for the bar exam, so arguably she should have already found out if she passed/failed and should already be admitted if she passed and made it through the character and fitness requirements. But maybe I am misremembering the timing. I do think I remember she said a while ago that she was taking the bar. If she hasn’t, then she still need to do that.

I think she said somewhere recently she’s going to take it this spring. So either I am wrong and she never said she was sitting for it last year, or she sat for it and didn’t pass, or she did say she was sitting for it and then for some reason she didn’t take it. The more time that passes between law school and the exam, the lower the odds someone passes. If she’s sincere about it she probably should hunker down with a test prep program and just get it DONE.

[K_VanOlst]

@vxf111

So I don’t find the multiple Nabab de Reve foals to be a suspicious occurrence that makes me think one must really by by a different sire.

I think the concerns were more centered around his frozen semen being known to be tricky (IIRC)? Most people don’t have success with it and she has two coming. Unless I’m misremembering an earlier tangent in this thread (or the thread in the dressage forum, there are so many threads about this mess)

[fivestrideline]

No, that’s correct. It’s notoriously tricky, and TWO viable pregnancies seems unlikely.

Somehow it’s the worst people that have the best luck in these situations

[MHM]

@omare

Ears up and jumping with such joy!<3(and driver going with it!)

I wonder what the expressions were on the people on the back of that rig that are not visible in the picture. Lol.

I just saw a video the other day of the driving obstacle class from the big indoor show in Sweden or wherever it was. That looked pretty crazy.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@K_VanOlst

@vxf111

So I don’t find the multiple Nabab de Reve foals to be a suspicious occurrence that makes me think one must really by by a different sire.

I think the concerns were more centered around his frozen semen being known to be tricky (IIRC)? Most people don’t have success with it and she has two coming. Unless I’m misremembering an earlier tangent in this thread (or the thread in the dressage forum, there are so many threads about this mess

Exactly. There were zero foals from frozen Nabab semen in the US for quite some time. I believe I read somewhere someone had gotten a viable embryo from ICSI… but there doesn’t seem to be multiple people or much talk about that. The only person I have seen publicly selling frozen doses of Nabab de Reve for ICSI or anything else is Kate.

I don’t know… I just am suspicious about these two alleged Nabab embryos being real or viable…

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

ICSI was specifically created to get around terrible quality semen. A tiny portion of semen is thawed and the vet selects a single sperm (the healthiest they can find) to inject into the oocyte. So even with horrific semen it is possible to get many pregnancies.

[vxf111]

Ah ok. Got it.