You’re blaming the rider? For what, picking a crappy instructor who put her on an inappropriate horse that sent her to the hospital with a concusion? I think when you get older you’ll have a less reckless opinion about things.
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AGAIN!!! Putting the rider’s lack of a firm lower leg in perspective by putting her on a horse that sent her to the ER??? The only perspective that shows is how the OP needs to find a better barn.
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I read it as the horse bucked at the flopping stirrup iron, not grippy knees.
But what about the history of bucking others off? Are you ok with a horse routinely bucking off your students? Does the level of harm this student suffered change how you would use that horse?
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AHHH!!! Many, many people do not have strong and stable lower legs. They do not deserve to get bucked off their lesson horses for the “learning experience.” How old are you? You sound like a very young person who doesn’t care about her own safety or has had series of crappy instructors.
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Beginners do not deserve to get bucked off. An experienced student that should know better? Yea sorry I’m not as sympathetic. We’re talking about riding horses. If you mess up you can get hurt. If you don’t like that, go take piano lessons instead.
And I’m in my late 20’s. Every lesson program I’ve ever been in has used some greenies in lessons when appropriate. Nobody died, nobody got seriously injured. I’m thankful to have been challenged as a rider. I’m a little afraid for future generations after reading these comments. I mean when I fall off I reflect on what I did wrong and what I could’ve done better. I don’t get on COTH and complain about my trainer putting me on a challenging horse when I’m the “paying customer.” Yikes.
The OP said, “So recently I’ve been taking lessons away from my usual barn with switching disciplines.” Just because you’re an experienced saddleseat rider doesn’t make you an experienced jumper. Just because you’re an experienced western pleasure rider doesn’t mean that you’ve got the muscle memory and ability to immediately successfully ride hunters.
And no one, including you, bothered to clarify what the OP meant by “experienced.” “Experienced” is a word that is widely misused and used to mean different things by different people.
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The horse probably bucked because of both. My mare would buck my ass off if I did either of those.
Also I’m not a trainer but I’ve been in plenty of programs where there’s definitely been horses that gotten everyone off at one point or another. I think it depends on your definition of routinely. Are they bucking kids off for every single lesson? That’s obviously not ok. But if they have gotten a few students off here and there because the horse doesn’t agree with getting popped in the face? Or caught in the back? That’s normal in every program I’ve ever been in. There’s a huge difference between a horse that’s dangerous and bolts or rears than a horse that just has a little lower BS tolerance.
EquKelly, I have also ridden at those barns. I get what you are saying about falling off, but this from the OP:
“The trainer then tells me she likes to have students ride this horse because it helps them with bad habits and that if they get dumped by this horse it’s the riders fault.”
This is what the trainer believes, that the rider deserved a grade II concussion, because she didn’t ride properly. You are saying you too, would deserve a concussion if you didn’t rider properly, even if your instructor set you up to fail. Maybe if you rode particularly poorly that day, you’d deserve more injury, right? Perhaps broken bones or permanent injury?
You are sound like you are a caring horse owner, do you think this trainer is doing that horse any good?
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Oh come on it’s not like the trainer knew the kid would get sent to the ER. The trainer probably just knew the horse was green and that OP could probably handled it if she rides like she usually does. That’s why I think it’s valuable to ride green horses when you can. They highlight your flaws so you know what to work on. OP’s outside leg could’ve been sliding back and she could’ve been gripping with her knees for her whole riding career and she’d have had no idea she was even doing it and maybe her trainer had no idea she was even doing it because she was always riding horses that ignored it. Getting to ride a horse that will call you out on your BS is valuable, not reckless.
And who cares if she had no interest in being a trainer one day? I never did either. I still think it’s important that new rider’s learn to ride the slow ones, the fast ones, the old ones, and the young ones. It doesn’t matter if your personal horse is a saint and a push button and you just want to be a trail rider. Shit happens with any horse. Your horse could still get stung by a wasp and take off bucking. And if you’ve never ridden a challenging horse that bucks, you’d fall off.
It’s normal and healthy, to be challenged. If you don’t want to be, fine, but you won’t go far in this sport.
True, and as I read what OP posted, this horse is not Green or intolerant of BS but had already proven an unwise choice for lesson program use. OP seems to be 19 years old from her past posts, hate to see those still young suffer avoidable concussions.
My opinion based on my experience and observation over almost 50 more years in horses, as an adult, then you have spent, in 3 disciplines, 5 states, most breeds/types and watching or working with lord knows how many trainers. Good bad, abusive, bullying, you name it, I’ve seen it if not personally experienced it.
Others have different opinions based on their personal experiences. In mine, this was an unsuitable match unlikely to teach a thing except to the horse getting away with the behavior. Again.
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Of course accidents happen, that is why they are called accidents. This was NOT an accident. The trainer told OP that she KNEW the horse would throw a rider who wasn’t riding correctly. This was reckless endangerment.
I realize you have taken the stance that falling off can be a helpful way to learn how to ride better, and that falls are often the rider’s fault and that you’re not going to back down. But you’re not recognizing there’s thoughtful training and there’s bad training. This is bad training. Please learn to recognize it so you can keep yourself and your horses away from it.
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I don’t see how you guys all seem to think that the trainer thinks the OP deserved a concussion. I mean seriously? Deserved to fall off? Yea. Deserved a concussion? Nobody is saying that. This is a sport. If you make mistakes, you can get hurt. That’s not the trainer’s fault. That’s not the horse’s fault. That’s just how it is when you’re riding live animals.
Also, I really don’t see what the horse “learned he can get away with.” The horse didn’t do anything wrong. He didn’t start bucking because he was being naughty he probably started bucking because OP maybe gripped too hard and the stirrup was whacking him in the side. He probably bucked because he was scared and felt claustrophobic. It’s not like he bucked the kid off to get out of work and succeeded. That greenie probably just thought that the situation felt a little scary but he ended up being fine and he didn’t die… no big deal.
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Just recapping the exact situation and remarks by trainer OP shared many are specifically concerned about. Not the greater question of using Green horses in lessons, using horses like this one knowing a fall is likely.
Also, small point but I was always taught every time you touch a horse, even just snapping on a lead rope, every time, every session or ride. you are either training or untraining. So is this specific horse being trained or untrained? But that’s just the way I was taught, other trainers may have different theories based on their many successes or failures. Long as nobody gets hurt…but somebody did here.
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Good lord. I can’t handle this thread any more.
That’s just how it goes. If you don’t ride correctly, YEA you will probably fall off. Therefore, it would be wise to ride correctly. I mean why the hell do you think trainers teach you to sit up and keep your heels down? So you’ll win a blue ribbon? No! They teach you that because not doing that, will get you hurt. Equitation isn’t about sitting there and looking pretty. It’s about controlling your body to help the horse and make it safe for you. You keep your leg underneath you so that you don’t lose your stirrup. You keep your heels down so your foot doesn’t go through and you get caught. You sit up so that your in a good position to not fall off should your horse spook or trip.
So what if the trainer knew the horse would throw the rider off is she wasn’t riding correctly? That doesn’t mean the trainer knew OP wouldn’t ride correctly. It’s not like the trainer said “hey I noticed you keep losing your stirrup irons so I’ve decided to put you on this horse that will definitely buck you off when you inevitably make that mistake!” I don’t see why you all seem to think that the trainer KNEW that OP would fall off. I don’t think OP was deliberately set up to fail and the trainer just put her on this horse to “teach her a lesson” about whatever it was she did wrong. I think OP’s trainer knew that the horse would be within OP’s skill level and maybe just a little more of a challenge. That’s not reckless.
Yesterday when I let that teenager at my barn get on my 3YO, I also KNEW that my baby would buck that kid off if she “made mistakes” and started flopping all over in the saddle and got in my horse’s face. But I also knew that, the kid had a decent seat and soft hands and that the chances of her making mistakes like that were pretty low. And what do you know? I was right.
Then you should graciously back away.
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The situation where an experienced rider has been dislodged should not be asking for a canter transition on a school horse.
A school horse should be properly lunged, with stirrups down at a height that does not hit the elbows, until they do not care about stirrups bouncing around them
So they are lunged until they go around like a school horse!
It does not matter the age or greeness of the horse. It matters how much training they have received to be a school horse, before having students that are not advanced for that barn put on them.
Losing a stirrup does not mean you will come off. I had a stirrup break. It broke in half and went down and stabbed him in the outer heel of the off side hoof in gallop.
It was fairly superficial. I remounted and turned around and took him home.
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But would you purposefully put a rider that loses their stirrups on a regular basis on a horse that bucks riders off due to a loose stirrup to “teach the rider a lesson.” No, you would put riders on that horse with solid legs, and work on retraining that horse so it didn’t buck in those situations. Losing stirrups is a fault best corrected on solid horses where the rider can keep their leg in place and build up muscles. Not in some sort of death match arena situation on a horse that doesn’t have the proper training. The trainer clearly set the rider up to fail. Did she expect a grade 2 concussion? She probably should have, any fall off a horse can result in a concussion or even death.
I say all of this as a rider who got bucked off her green horse when he overjumped a fence and my leg swung. Got my ass planted. Then I worked on addressing three separate issues. Bucking when the leg swings, overjumping, and my leg.
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I can’t even begin to explain how negligent this opinion is.
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Ok will somebody please tell me WHERE OP said she regularly loses her stirrups and therefore the trainer put her on this horse to teach her not to lose her stirrups? Like I’m genuinely curious how everyone is assuming that.
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You were the one who said that’s how you would deal with a student with a weak lower leg. Put them on a horse to teach them a lesson. You’ve said that multiple times. Your attitude is negligent.
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