That description, like most of your additional explanations, is just making things so much worse. Why are you letting her get so close to other people that you must ‘check hard’ a/k/a yank on her mouth so you don’t … run into them? Why are you even riding with other people in the ring? And if you don’t have room for upward transitions, then for Pete’s sake stop asking for them. If I ran my horse around a ring and yanked his face for doing what I told him, I’m pretty sure he’d eject me and shut down and refuse to move, too. That’s normal horse reactions to bad situations, not a pissy mare with a bad attitude.
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OP I understand this likely feels like a pile on. If nothing else, I hope you take a few things away from this thread.
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Years involved does not always equal expertise. We all know crappy parents or bad employees who have “30 years of experience”. Some people are just mediocre at things for years or fail to keep their learning up to date.
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COTH is a unique community in that actual vets, vet techs, equine massage therapists, saddle fitters, FEI grooms, top trainers, professional riders, etc. respond to threads. We love to disagree here so if everyone is echoing each other please know that you’re hearing the collective voices of hundreds of years of combined experience from across the globe.
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No one on here has anything to gain or lose by your decision beyond concern for this horse and your well-being. The horse owner is gaining both money and free training by allowing you to be their crash dummy.
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Horses put up with a lot. They are prey animals designed to mask their pain and bred to be more or less compliant creatures. When they get loud it is because we missed the quiet signs first.
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If you do not believe the collective wisdom of COTH spend some time watching top trainers like Warwick Schiller. If you spend a few hours really watching and listening I am confident you will see how much stress this horse is carrying around even if she can trot on a loose rein or allows you to mount. Learn how to watch her eye, her nostrils, her breathing, that is how horses talk to each other.
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It is really unfair to ask an animal in pain to conform to our ideas of good behavior. It is 2023, vet bills are expensive but so is horse ownership in general. It is always the most responsible thing to scope for ulcers, do a lameness exam, and x-ray feet when you encounter extreme behavior. Many of us, myself included, can attest to the heartbreaking realization that the “naughty” behavior was a horse in incredible discomfort masking their pain and genuinely doing their best. We owe it to them.
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This is a bad situation all around. As someone who is a re-rider after a 20 yr hiatus, I can assure you, 6 months of lessons will not get back your muscle memory in such a way that you would be in a situation to work with a baby (not age specific, but level of training). Before I took my break I evented, foxhunted, pony club mounted games etc and it took me a good 2 yrs before I felt like I had any of my previous muscle memory back, and even now if I am tired, my body stops working. I bought my mare (red-headed chestnut) a year ago and we basically spent the entire winter just hanging out in the ring, hacking around, working on standing still, just generally being a good citizen oh and transitions, transitions and more transitions, first walk-trot, walk - halt and then added in the canter. I never cantered her in a group until I was pretty confident we had brakes (ie responded to a quiet whoa and a half-halt). I always tried to ride the horse I had that day with the goal that every ride should be as positive as possible. Horses don’t wake up and decide to be jerks, there is usually something going on beneath the surface. I really hope that you have a skilled trainer on the ground who has experience with an OTTB, otherwise this sounds like an emergency room visit in the making.
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These two points here explain why many “horsemen” can be “successful” for decades, if you measure success as being able to produce riding horses for sale, or make it to the show ring. The vast majority of horses eventually learn that life is easier if they shut up and submit – even if in some cases it means shutting up about their pain or fear. The few that don’t, get labeled “rogues” or “pukes” and scrub out of the (otherwise “successful”) program.
I got a mare as a giveaway because she was “unrideable”. All she was, was terrified. I’m an ok ammy rider, but it wasn’t my “riding skills” that allowed her to blossom – I just listened to her.
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A good example of why it’s not a good idea to label horses, as if the animal’s gender, color and breed predict their behaviors.
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Ugh. Off topic, but I saw what I assume was a “trainer” at a local A show who was trotting a cross rail and hitting the horse in the mouth every. Single. Time. The horse did a little, polite jig on the backside in response.
Said “trainer” told the groom to go lunge the horse 
to this day, I regret not saying something.
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Video. Post.A.Video.
Then the reality of what’s happening is easier to assist with ideas on what to offer.
Text and bad descriptions will get nowhere.
Em
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Post a video to this bunch of jackals? 
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I mean if you need/want help… then show what you need help with.
On Mechanic groups they use pics and videos to describe with ACTUAL footage what’s wrong so others can help.
They don’t only use words.
Em
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Yeah, methinks the OP has “left the building“, never to return.
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I hope they do return and take a lot of the feedback to heart.
I love an OTTB chestnut mare (stereotypical or not), and my heart hurts a little reading about this.
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Agree with most of what has been said here but, swimming upstream a bit.
Sorry, nothing personal here but…horse raced for 4-5 years then sat for 2 years and you are expecting her to know how to do anything except stand around and gallop after very few rides? Maybe owner is half right here? Maybe a nice, loose rein gallop WILL relax her?
Maybe she gets anxious because she has never been taught the “3 other gaits”? She’s clueless and has no idea what you want? Nobody has ever taught her what to do, only tried to get her to do things she does not know how to do? Maybe she overreacts to you never being happy with her efforts? Horses pick up on our displeasure and frustration, maybe she us frustrated that she cannot understand what you want? And she knows how negatively you feel about her.
IMO, she may be greatly helped by a complete restart from groundwork up. Most who successfully restart high mileage OTTBs go much, much slower the first 60 days (at least). They establish a partnership by filling in holes in their training and making sure they understand what they are supposed to do. There is much info out there on restarting OTTBs, much of it free or very low cost.
Try approaching her as your student, not a pissy redheaded bitch. Work with her. Remember, ask a stallion, tell a gelding, negotiate with a mare. If you do, you will never, ever have a better working partner.
That said, this does not sound like an ideal situation. Of course we don’t have the other side and there is always more to the story. Anyway, lots of other horses in other barns out there and a better match of horse and rider seems the best way out. For both.
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Hope OP comes back to read the above, @findeight. Very insightful.
Sometimes these horse hookups are just a bad match from the get-go.
Sorta like,“you can’t teach a pig to sing”…
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Racehorses are started like any other horses. If you’ve ever been to the racetrack to watch the horses being exercised, you’ll see all three, often cantering out and trotting back. Heck, you see them trotting to cool down after running the Kentucky derby. They race because the jockey is making them run fast. Not speaking to any particular horse’s temperament, but I think people forget that.
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They may know the basics, but I had to train every one of the many, many, many of the ex-racehorse I rode how to walk correctly. Trot correctly. Canter correctly turn, balance, do everything correctly. Like any other horse. Right off the track, or unschooled TBs off the track are not a great match for uneducated riders.
No green horse is
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BB is absolutely correct here. My choice of wording fell far short of what I was trying to say and seemed to single out OTTBs so let me rephrase….
Any horse who has performed in another discipline for years then stand around for years is 1) going to
be rusty and 2) not going to be able to immediately perform the requirements of a different discipline.
They need to be untrained then retrained to the new expectations. Preferably by a rider with the skill set to recognize what horse needs to master at each step in the transition. Lets not forget if the career changing horse was handled by professionals in a controlled environment on a regular work schedule then sits for two years? Average Ammy rider in typical boarding barn surroundings on typical Ammy riding schedule is going to face some challenges and may not able or willing to back up and start over to be sure horse and rider are on the same page.
Two personal examples. Friend got a great deal on an imported driving horse who did driving competitions for several years, had a couple of foals, was imported then sat for another year. It was very saddle broke, WTC, rudimentary lead change installed. So she started it as a Hunter doing most of her own work. Or tried. They both got upset and frustrated in a winter, crowded indoor with other horses being schooled. Canter was especially difficult. They fed each others anxiety and frustration. There were other issues (bolt out of the blue) that were not in Ammys skill set even without the mutual anxiety. Eventually gave up.
Other cases were with former Cow and Reining horses people were trying to covert to more pleasure type divisions. Rider would over cue, horse would do what it thought was wanted, rider would over react and pull, jerk, yell whoa (possibly getting spun or stopped off)not understanding why horse was not responding the way rider expected. Can be a mess blamed on the horse.
Of course, on the more sedate front, you get hunt seat riders getting into a former WP campaigner trying to convert to Hunt Seat because it won’t extend either the trot or canter instead of pokey lope.
Anyway, issues changing careers are not restricted to OTTBs. IMO, many horses can be retaught but it takes time, patience, understanding and the rider skill set to do it.
ETA. When starting to work with a horse you personally do not know from people you do not know well or at all and those people have told you everything you know about the horse and its history? You could not find or didn’t look for verification of age, breed, show/race record or health history?
Assume they puffed the details at best and outright made it up at worst. In other words, they lied. Just assume the horse knows nothing and just start it over from square one. If it knows something, it will quickly become evident, if not, you can teach it. All you will be out is some time but it will save you even more time, disappointment, frustration and possibly a trip to the ER.
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I’d sure like to know the whole back story on this horse and WHY BO bought her for “just a broodmare”. Was she injured before retirement?
Did BO try to re-start her and failed?
I sniff more to the story here than what OP was told.
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Above all, why isn’t the owner getting on her, and letting the OP (who is getting back to riding herself) do the first 15 rides on the mare after the horse has had 2 years off.
I mean, I know a lot of very competent ammies who ask their trainer to give their horse a spin 'round the arena before they get on after the horse has had a fair bit of time off due to an injury, but way less time off than 2 years.
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I mean, she’s getting PAID to have someone else do it Quite the racket (at least if you’re not particularly concerned with how the horse turns out.)
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I returned to riding about 15 years ago. I did about 3 years of twice weekly lessons before I started looking for a lease. I wanted a barn with trails which my lesson barn didn’t have.
I would say it’s not uncommon for someone a bit unethical to put up a horse for lease that’s way more green than advertised and charge for it. You really have to be careful. When you are getting back into horses, you remember what you could do as a teen, you remember the green horse you schooled as a teen and you have residual respect for anyone that presents themselves as a coach, trainer or horse owner. That can easily land you in over your head, or being mentored by someone who is an idiot.
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