I have to push the Broad Brush line:
On the West Coast, Gold Brush (with Preciptic, sire of steeplechasers, on the damside).
The gorgeous Mr. Broad Blade is at Magali Farms in central California.
Maybry’s Boy is now standing in Arizona.
Do you have a link to Clifton Lush’s pedigree? I have a lovely mare with Hatchet Man as dam’s sire. http://www.pedigreequery.com/rockstina
She out on a show lease now but I am considering breeding next year. Super nice type and I like her pedigree…but she has had mild hind suspensory issues. My vet and others think she is still worth breeding…but still deciding.
Raven’s Choice by Dance with Ravens just won the Maryland Hunt Cup. Raven’s Choice’s dam has Ten Tam pretty close and is beautifully bred
Point Given seems to produce nice jumping horses.
It’s always worth keeping an eye on timber horse breeding because they need good minds as well as athleticism.
It would be nice if we still had Riverman’s influence available. Virginia Rapids was in NJ but he’s long gone.
Tip #1: If a horse has Royal Charger in its pedigree, buy it at once. 
He is not found a lot, but whenever I have seen Royal Charger in a pedigree, the horse in question has been a fabulous jumper.
Tip: #2: When you see a good horse in a pedigree, do not assume that the sport horse blood comes from its sire. For instance, Mr. Prospector is not (IMHO of course ) a good sport horse sire. When you do find him in pedigrees, it is most often through his son, Fappiano. And Fappiano’s broodmare sire is Dr. Fager, an EXCELLENT sport horse influence. Do not go for the famous name, instead follow the sire and dam of that horse back until you find where the jumping genes originated. Famous horses were usually bred to top mares. That gives each side of the mating a 50/50 chance of becoming a valuable influence.
And this is why I do not think that Seattle Slew and his son AP Indy are top sport horse sires. Close inspection will often find that the high quality of the mare is the valuable part of the mating, from our point of view.
Tip #3: Just seeing a name in a pedigree does not mean as much as where it is in the pedigree. Easy examples are: Northern Dancer is more influential in tail male line, since his “good” genes were primarily passed down through his sons. OTOH, Secretariat was most successful as a broodmare sire. Ideally, he would be found in the tail female line, but, in any event, he is certainly more influential from a sport horse POV through his daughters. Another horse who seems to be more important when found in a certain position on the page is Believe It. I have had and known of a number of really good sport horses who have Believe It as a dam sire. I have never found him to be a sport horse influence when he is on the top side of a pedigree.
I differ in opinion from Viney in that I think that the genetic makeup of an early ancestor has very little effect on a current horse. By the time you get to the 5th generation, each horse only contributes 3% of his genes to its great, great, great great grandson. If you find a “good name” in a pedigree, but it is several generations removed from any current good sport horses, IMO, the “sporthorse genes” have, most likely, fallen by the wayside, and so I discount that horse as a strong positive influence.
Clifton Lush
http://sporthorse-data.com/d?z=ERVo1i&d=Clifton+Lush&x=36&y=15
Interesting that she has Olden Times in almost the same position in the bottom that Clifton Lush has in the top. Olden Times is an excellent line to find in sport horses.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8127239]
Tip #1: If a horse has Royal Charger in its pedigree, buy it at once. He is not found a lot, but whenever I have seen Royal Charger in a pedigree, the horse in question has been a fabulous jumper.
Tip: #2: When you see a good horse in a pedigree, do not assume that the sport horse blood comes from its sire. For instance, Mr. Prospector is not (IMHO of course ) a good sport horse sire. When you do find him in pedigrees, it is most often through his son, Fappiano. And Fappiano’s broodmare sire is Dr. Fager, an EXCELLENT sport horse influence. Do not go for the famous name, instead follow the sire and dam of that horse back until you find where the jumping genes originated. Famous horses were usually bred to top mares. That gives each side of the mating a 50/50 chance of becoming a valuable influence.
And this is why I do not think that Seattle Slew and his son AP Indy are top sport horse sires. Close inspection will often find that the high quality of the mare is the valuable part of the mating, from our point of view.
Tip #3: Just seeing a name in a pedigree does not mean as much as where it is in the pedigree. Easy examples are: Northern Dancer is more influential in tail male line, since his “good” genes were primarily passed down through his sons. OTOH, Secretariat was most successful as a broodmare sire. Ideally, he would be found in the tail female line, but, in any event, he is certainly more influential from a sport horse POV through his daughters. Another horse who seems to be more important when found in a certain position on the page is Believe It. I have had and known of a number of really good sport horses who have Believe It as a dam sire. I have never found him to be a sport horse influence when he is on the top side of a pedigree.
I differ in opinion from Viney in that I think that the genetic makeup of an early ancestor has very little effect on a current horse. By the time you get to the 5th generation, each horse only contributes 3% of his genes to its great, great, great great grandson. If you find a “good name” in a pedigree, but it is several generations removed from any current good sport horses, IMO, the “sporthorse genes” have, most likely, fallen by the wayside, and so I discount that horse as a strong positive influence.[/QUOTE]
Aww, my old Prelim horse had Royal Charger top and bottom (via Irish Lancer both times iirc)-- he was an amazing athlete but didn’t quite have the drive to be an UL horse.
Another vote for Alydar here. had a grandson - best horse ever. Not an easy ride, but an honest one. Gallop down to the base of anything.
Loyal. Good bone.
Also one of the loveliest movers I’ve ever had was my Private Terms guy. Tried hi heart out. Had a bunch of starts - was running cheap when I got him.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8127345]
Clifton Lush
http://sporthorse-data.com/d?z=ERVo1i&d=Clifton+Lush&x=36&y=15
Interesting that she has Olden Times in almost the same position in the bottom that Clifton Lush has in the top. Olden Times is an excellent line to find in sport horses.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I love her dam line. She really is a nice mare and Jimmy Wofford likes her. I should bred her soon.
This mare http://www.pedigreequery.com/kourages+kelly. Just had her first filly for me. She was a no brainier to bred. Raced 7 years, 105 starts and clean legs. Wonderful brain an athlete. Her filly by Riverman is spectacular. Here is a picture at a week old and a sweet picture of Kory.
Every time I see Secreto, I think of the fall of Calumet as described in Wild Ride.
Lord Helpus, some people believe in the Engine Room–multiple crosses of the same ancestor in the 6th to 9th generations. In TBs which all share so much of the same basic genetic material, that’s why I personally am willing to go farther back. So many characteristics are multi-gene complexes that only looking at the immediate forebears seems to be to be a bit short sighted. If you have 13% over all of Teddy, a horse from the early 1900s, that may give you something more like him than a newer ancestor with only 4%. With TBs, it’s all mix and match from the same gene pool.
There aren’t enough pure TBs in sport horse competition that are still intact that you can easily find performers close up in the breeding lines. That’s why I like to go look and see what the ancestors have produced that have ended up in sport. With TBs in sport, it’s often a question of opportunity.
All I can say is thank you all. Once again a post-grad class in bloodlines. Please. please ?keep it coming. I hope to eventually absorb enough that I can be considered educated.
That is a good read. Although I loved seeing Seclusive in her damline. He was approved by a WB reg. and had produced several jumpers and eventers. And I love to have Herbager and Sir Gaylord on the first page. I have not seen many by this mare’s sire (Halos and Horns) but I would take another one just like this mare!!!
Interesting! The most athletic horse I ever owned (years ago, of course) was by Seclusive. He raced, steeplechased, and show jumped before taking up eventing.
The entire Exclusive family was damned good.
Your Rockstina mare has all three foundation sires on the first page, which I personally believe is a Good Thing.
I have a 2006 gelding by Pleasant Tap (son of Pleasant Colony). My gelding is fairly small (15.3) with a small head, contrary to what’s been posted. He IS however, super calm/quiet. He’s super honest and willing. Haven’t had soundness issues yet knocks on wood.
Interesting to read about Mr. Prospector. My gelding does have Fappiano on his pedigree…
I’ll throw E Dubai (Mr. Prospector x Words of War) out there as a sire I’ve come across fairly recently that I like. I ended up with an E Dubai gelding out of a Dixieland Band mare ( http://www.pedigreequery.com/pop+tarrt ) who has turned out to be freakishly athletic with an ammie-friendly brain. I’ve now come across a couple of other E Dubai offspring (and JBRP had one last year that she sold) who all seem to be good jumpers and quick learners - and good horses for the ambitious amateur who’s looking for something pretty athletic - and not to mention very handsome horses
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8127464]
Every time I see Secreto, I think of the fall of Calumet as described in Wild Ride.
I agree it is a pretty good read. But having been pretty close to the “details” the author took a lot of liberties with filling in the “blanks”. Fair enough most do. Calumet over paid for Secreto to begin with. But with good intentions. Being by Northern Dancer and English Darby winner he was quite “sexy”. Unfortunately by the time his first crop hit the ground the tax law changes and recession of the late 80s took its toll on the TB market. Throw in the fact that American breeders were losing interest in breeding to Euro raced horses didn’t help things. “Getting into bed with the Devil” Peter Brandt which ended in a “nasty divorce” escalated the down fall. Among other things.
My father “bred” Secreto’s dam Betty’s Secret for Howard Gilman of Gilman Paper Corp.
I hope this doesn’t side track the thread.
Imported TBs
Hi all, I am reading everything I can on pedigrees, but I was wondering if someone here could shed some light on my two guys who are both imported to the US.
TB #1
Pedigree
Racing reports and video
Australian bred - Raced in Hong Kong (turf horse), imported to the US in 2013. He is 15.3 and short coupled and a little chunk (like his sire, looks like a QH).
TB #2
Pedigree
Racing reports and video
New Zealand bred - Raced in Hong Kong (turf horse), imported to the US in 2013. He is 16.2 and long limbed, high neck carriage, “look of eagles”. This guy has Eventer stamped all over him.
Both are very sweet horses, although TB #2 grandsire is Sir Tristram who has a reputation for being nasty. Both have Danzig via Danehill in their pedigrees. But they could not be more different in movement and athleticism. TB #1 is a sprinter, TB #2 is a go all day, let’s do it again, kind of guy. They both jump well, but TB #1 is catty and hot. TB#2 is steadier, more of an AA ride, but ridiculously scopey and athletic.
Even though both were born overseas, they have fairly American pedigrees even one generation back. I would love to get more insight on Zabeel > Sir Tristram > Sir Ivor lines or anything else that jumps out on these guys.
Sir Ivor (and his sire Sir Gaylord) are found in a huge number of TBs with sport horse careers. Sir Ivor himself had 48 different get who have got descendants in sport. This is one of the highest numbers that I’ve found for a TB.
Any opinions on Meadowlake babies?
[QUOTE=TheodoreCleaver;8129234]
Any opinions on Meadowlake babies?[/QUOTE]
I like them. Usually seem to attract the hunter crowd, as they have sweeping trots. Big bodied. They mentally mature quick but seem to mature slowly physically, so they have a reputation as being fragile… IMHO not the case… they just look very mature early on and are pushed early because of it.
