Ok, so I offered some helpful tips previously and I still stand by those but…
Why would you breed her? If you cannot ride this mare, how will you be able to ride her offspring? If you have issues affording 2 horses and their training…why add a 3rd?
Maybe you’ll be able to get along with and ride this horse just swell, so I’m not looking to put you down. However, I think a lot of ammies should not be buying sight unseen. Their aspirations far surpass their abilities and comfort levels. This is why you have others saying “sell” or that you are not capable. We see it all. the. time. So many riders do not realize what it takes to ride these big moving horses. Or that some of the most talented horses are the most quirky of horses. I hope you are the minority and not the majority for your sake, and don’t take it personally.
I was over horsed on my second horse, he was practically my 9yo selfs dream horse - a gorgeous bay arabian gelding. He was an ex endurance horse with two buttons, go and GO, he was certainly not suited for a second horse for a kid after coming off a kick kick KICK pony. I became hesitant to ride and to be honest the thing that got me back in the saddle was the threat by my mother to send him back but what also helped was a lot of lunging with no stirrups, no hands and no eyes! Building up to it of course
As someone who has fought nerves, I think you need to get help to start riding this horse asap. The more you delay and plan, the bigger the issue will seem to you.
I believe you need immediate help from a sympathetic but strong trainer. The trainer may work with the horse and then start you on her on the longe line, probably doing exercises at the walk first to get you looser and more confident and then moving on to helping you with her trot.
I think you need help with her. It may be difficult financially but the payback is that you will be enjoying her sooner. Good luck!
I’m really not trying to put you down, just asking you serious and important questions.
How do you know that you’ll overcome your fear? How? Do you have a plan outside of asking for help here? There really isn’t much CotHers can do.
You’ve been riding dressage for 15yrs, are still just dabbling at 1rst level and have confidence issues.
You don’t have much money to train, yet your goal is to ride up the levels. How is a 3rd level Friesian that you are actually scared of riding for now will help you achieve your goal? How long will it take? Training isn’t something that stays within the horse forever if it’s not maintain. Will it takes you another 5-10 years to get to 2d level or higher?
I’m serious here, since you cannot get much help, how will you keep the training up to date? You’ve bought a 3rd level horse, and surely paid good money for, because that’s what you wanted to do. I’m merely just asking if it wouldn’t have more clever spending money on more lessons or on a horse you could have truly enjoy now at 1rst level.
I’ve been riding for 30 yrs and I’ve seen a lot of those “presents” becoming just scary pasture ornements. The horse won’t care if you end up just trail riding, it really doens’t matter if it doesn’t go up the level or if it takes you 20 yrs to get there, it’s just that your initial investment wasn’t for that.
What is so “newbie” about saying that I won’t give up in myself and won’t give up on the horse? Isn’t that what everyone is grown up to do…not to give up? I can’t get into regular training with both horses because I can’t afford it. Life got in the way, weather isn’t cooperating, I can’t find a saddle to fit, my mother has been “tip toeing” around everything to do with horses because she’s scared of them. It’s all on me, not the mare.
It’s really “newby” to say you won’t give up because it has nothing to do with “giving up”. Newby riders don’t want to understand/realize how important it is to ride suitable horses.
They buy the horse of their dreams, they can’t ride, they can’t take much lessons, horses gets bored/starts antics and riders get even more scared and end up not riding.
What is wrong with admitting that a horse is not for you?
The grown up thing to do is being humble, not stubborn. Humility (and being down to earth) is the common traits of good riders.
I trust the coach of the seller of the mare, as she’s a friend of a friend, and I didn’t have time to drive 23hrs to try her. If anything, I’ll just breed her.
You can trust whoever you want but just think that they sold a 3rd level horse to a training level riders with confidence issues that won’t have access to regular training.
Like you said, your mare was in an intense riding program… and was quiet. What is going to happen now that she’s not ridden much?
And you said your mare had issues in that program? Yet you trust this trainer who put her in that kind of program? Ok.
It’s a shame you didn’t have the time to go see her there. What is 24hrs over the problem you are now dealing with?
Why on earth would you breed her?!? THAT’S a real newby idea… Yeah, let’s make baby of a mare that you are scared of and that you don’t have the funds to train… Backyard breeding is the stupidest idea you could have come with. Sorry.
Perhaps I shouldn’t have even went seeking for help on here, as I can’t explain everything in text as I could in person. It took a lot of guts for me to try to explain on here, but whatever.
Honestly, all I saw was someone trying to crush me, so I went on the defensive. Sorry…
People, and me, aren’t trying to crush you.
You need help, from REAL trainers. Yes, we can tell you to get lunged and do ground works and all… but you need real training from a professionnal.
Keep the mare if you want, no one here can do anything about that, (and franckly, we won’t care much if you do - I have other things to think about) but please, put your money towards training this mare. Bring your Warmblood back or sell it even, but get help with that mare asap.
Do things in little increments, don’t push yourself to be massively brave if you aren’t feeling it inside. Your horse will know and get worried.
Get as many lessons as you can, do lots of groundwork with the horse, (not a HUGE fan of lunging per se, because to me, it’s mileage on the legs, but you can do some sensible quiet lunging)…if you can get a friend to keep you company on the ground. A horseperson would be best, but if not, anyone, your Mum or other family member.
Give them some position corrections to say to you, and just reminders for you to “sit up and ride”, “forward” focus on the rhythm. Just a body on the ground I find gives the rider a lot more confidence to push thru and do what they KNOW they can do but their little voice on their shoulder, gets them doubting themselves.
Put a nice quiet hokey radio station on for company and sing along (no rap, no heavy metal, something easy listening)… sing… breathe.
Talk to yourself out loud. Give yourself a lesson. GIve yourself patterns to ride and complete, focus on the accuracy of your work. So you aren’t focussing on how big your horse feels, think of perfect circles, correct voltes, correct serpentines, and talk yourself thru them.
I think you can do this. Don’t be pushed by outsiders to do something you aren’t happy with. Take it slowly. But give yourself positive talk. You aren’t “scared” you are sensibly using common sense given your past experiences.
Check out Warrick Schiller’s groundwork stuff on youtube. I love him. He has a fair bit on there that is free to watch and I find it very helpful when working with big horses and getting the boundaries and groundwork established.
If it is a stormy night and a thunderstorm or something and you are worried about outside stuff, don’t ride that night. Don’t set yourself up for a failure. Try to keep as much control of outside factors that you can. Yes I know you will be able in time to ride thru banging snowstorms, but why scare yourself unnecessarily.
Perhaps get someone to half lease her to get her ridden more.?
If your decision is to keep her, she needs to be ridden more to get the energy out, and you need to ride her more to not feel so scared. . If that means riding her at the walk in the arena where you feel safe, so be it, for however long that is. Lots you can do at the walk-do serpentines, halts, leg yields, walk over poles etc. Getting her to listen to you and knowing she will halt will give you confidence. If you feel okay with it , add short periods of slow trot with a neck strap.
OP, I understand the feeling of being overhorsed and afraid.
You can get over that feeling.
Whether or not you do it with this horse is still up in the air.
A rider who is overhorsed and isn’t working with a trainer is putting herself at a huge disadvantage to start with. That doesn’t mean it can’t be done, but it does mean that you have to work extra hard mentally to get through this issue and that you must really plan ahead and be a thinking rider and also put on yourself the role of being a trainer for your horse (not in terms of teaching her something she doesn’t know, but in terms of planning out a schedule for rides, management, work days and rest days, etc.).
Here are some things that helped me when I was in a state of fear with a horse.
Yoga and meditation. Yoga was a really good tool for learning how to separate my body parts and helped me develop more awareness. It can also be a really great workout and help develop core strength. Meditation was helpful for calming my mind when I got into “what if” scenarios. Also, mantras helped me A LOT! Daily before going to the barn I would repeat “I am confident, I am strong” over and over and over again. If you use this, use only positive self talk; for example, instead of saying “I’m not afraid” say “I am confident.” It is a stronger self statement to use only a positive affirmation instead of a not-negative one, if that makes sense.
Go out and work with your horse every day. Just be around her, get to know her, groom and hand walk her. See her, be with her, but only do what you are confident that you can do successfully. If you are feeling nervous one day and all you can do is groom and hand walk, do that. If you feel like you can go a step further and lunge her, do that. Develop a habit and history of success that you can build on. Do the “successful”’ things until you are bored to death, then build on that.
Review her management program. Make sure she gets enough turnout and play time. Make sure she’s not getting too many calories in for the amount of work she’s doing. An over-fed/over-grained horse is not going to work in your favor. That does not mean under-feed her, just don’t fuel her up when she doesn’t need it or isn’t able to use it. If she’s not getting enough time in turnout, then perhaps put her in the round pen and let her run around (don’t chase her) if she wants to get some sillies out before you work with her. Horses need their play time and they need to move. They were born to move.
Seek out professionals who can help you develop your all-around horsemanship. It doesn’t have to be a dressage trainer. It might not be a dressage trainer. It could be a h/j trainer, or a cowboy, or someone who does clicker training or liberty work or is great at making trail horses. There is something to learn from all sorts of disciplines. A good horseman/woman can be found in all sorts of places. Find those people and seek their help. Some of my best lessons were in ground work and just riding at the walk.
Seek to be good at something that seems easy but can be done better (walking in a straight line is hard, or perfecting a 20-m circle, or TOF or walk-halt transitions using your seat only, or a half-halt). I ditto the people above who said to do ground work a la Warwick Schiller or Buck Brannaman or Jonathan Field (he’s in CAN). This will really help you a lot to understand feel and timing and balance and it will help get your horse paying attention to you. It looks easy but it is very difficult to do well. It also looks easy for the horse, but done right it is a workout for them as well.
I’ve been in your situation and I’ve gone both ways with it. I have been in training but still sold the horse (who, it turns out, got off everyone who ever sat on him, though I didn’t know it when I bought him of course), and I have kept the horse and done the work on my own between clinics (no one ever worked my horse or rode him for me, but I worked with cowboys who were excellent teachers). Ultimately I can tell you that in my riding “career” I’ve gone from being afraid to even get on and have a lesson at the walk (the horse I sold) to being confident in working mostly on my own (trail riding on my own, going to shows on my own, riding on my own, starting my own, WTCJ, you name it). It is possible to get over the fear but you must put ego and immediate goals aside, find your grit and determination, and do the work. It won’t just happen.
There is no shame in selling the horse if she isn’t going to be what you want.
Please, please, please, for the love of horses do not breed this mare, though. There are plenty of horses in the world and I would only breed if it was a horse that I already loved riding and handling and if I was open to the possibility of heartache from it not going as I’d hoped or planned.
I think most of us have been overhorsed at some point. We’ve also all seen someone who was overhorsed and got out of horses altogether because of it. So our advice comes from that perspective - trying to save you pain.
You have to make choices on how you want to handle things. Having been injured gives you VERY good, VERY valid reasons to have fear. If you’re in a cycle of fear on a horse you now haven’t been riding because you’re scared, you’re not going to get out of that cycle on your own as colder weather (and higher energy for your horse) come along and leave you with a horse who now has pent up energy and who you’ve been able to build into something scary in your head.
That’s a normal pattern anyone battling fear has, you’re not at all unusual if that’s how it has gone for you.
{long story here, you can skip to the end if you don’t feel like reading it.}
But if you want to get past it, you have to get a LOT of help. My TB bucked me off - violently - and I was scared of riding him after that. In my case, there were no injuries which made it easier to handle. But there was also specific behavior which he would warn was coming, so I didn’t have to fear the unknown of indeterminate date and time. For the next 9 months after that, my horse was in full training with my trainer - which meant full lessons for me. My trainer sometimes rode him before my lessons, and sometimes after me. But he ALWAYS supervised my rides for 9 months. I was taking 6-8 lessons/week, on any horse my trainer could get me on in addition to my guy. And we did a LOT of skill building in that time. We also built trust between each other, so I knew my trainer wouldn’t ask me to do anything I couldn’t handle.
During those 9 months, any time I got on and my horse was wound up, my trainer had me get off and did the whole ride himself. He wanted to ensure I was ready for the inevitable explosions before I had to ride through them, and he worked with me on getting a deep and solid dressage seat to be safe as he demonstrated that not only was it possible to ride through my horse’s bucking, but to push him forward out of the bucking and get in a productive ride on the bad days.
9 months in I went to ride my horse one evening, and he felt like an explosion meant to happen. My trainer told me I was ready and needed to ride through it. I was absolutely TERRIFIED, but trusted my trainer and he talked me through using the key words and phrases we’d built - and my muscle memory responded to him even as my brain was absolutely shut down. Then, as we crossed X and I was in the rising phase of a posting trot, my horse launched. With my trainer talking me through it I sat, leaned back (because there are times that’s the appropriate response, like when a horse is trying to dump you!), really engaged my core, turned enough to get his head out from between his knees, and kicked him into a canter. Two little crowhops later and he was under control, cantering around, and the tension in his body was diffused by having worked past it. We went back to trot work and were fine.
{/end long story here}
I STILL have to replay my trainer’s words in similar situations, but have now experienced it enough that even my brain patterns handle it and don’t shut down.
The way I see it is, you have a few options:
Work really hard and incrementally developing the skills you need to handle what you fear (which this horse apparently isn't doing to you) while making sure you have a trainer you can trust, who will build that trust and help you, and who will help you get the skills you need. This may take time, but is HUGELY rewarding if you do it. You need a trainer who is both skilled at teaching the minutiae of riding AND understanding and kindly pushing you past your limits created by fear.
Sell this horse and buy one who doesn't cause the same feeling which makes you fear her. My mare doesn't even buck when playing in turnout and simply feels SAFE when I ride her. There are other nice horses out there who are that way, and if you want to go that way no one can blame you.
Keep this horse and going the way you are - and don't conquer your fear, possibly even having it grow greater. But have a good friend you can enjoy on the ground who is beautiful to watch. This one's ok, too, really. As long as she's fed and cared for your horse *has zero aspirations.* It's one of the great things about horses. They're happy to be pasture pets for the most part, and I've never known a Friesian cross (including the one I own) who didn't feel that way.
The one thing you shouldn't do is get down on yourself or the horse who has apparently been well behaved. Fear is a normal human condition, and something everyone has battled at some point.
^^^
This, a million times, this. Forget the ‘incremental’ stuff with no trainer.
Find a good trainer/rider/coach…as in, the best, actively riding and showing and successful developing horses and riders that you can find and afford.
Get horse back in regular work with trainer.
Have above good trainer assess mare and accurately describe your fears to them and make a plan.
Begin a RIDING program with your trainer that is for you…on a schoolmaster (not your mare), OR on a lunge line (schoolmaster OR your mare, whichever you are comfortable), etc. progress as you feel comfortable.
The more you delay and piddle on the ground with no educated help or direction, the bigger it will become in your mind and more difficult to overcome.
I’m having a bit of a tough time following, but if I were you I would move the horse to the trainer’s barn and ride only in lessons for awhile. Have the trainer ride first, then if it’s a good day, get on for a few minutes. Just do this until both you and the horse are confident. Then do a bit more every time.
What you don’t want to do is not have the horse ridden, because every day the horse isn’t ridden is a day the horse becomes less trained. And you sure don’t want to come off, because then you have to overcome that.
So just dial everything back, have the trainer make sure the horse is confident and calm, then hop on and start working away at it.
Wrecks happen, accidents happen, even on schoolmasters. They are still horses.
3 months seems early to give up on a horse that may well end up being entirely suitable for the OP, plus she has said she’s not ready to give up yet, so that advice isn’t particularly helpful in this situation, though certainly valid.
OP given the additional info, I think you need to have a look at your budget and your horses and prioritize where your goals are. After a summer off and with your nerves, sounds like mare needs some regular pro rides to get back into the swing of things. You need that as well, so you can see her going calmly and well for someone else, and hopefully get on right after the pro with him / her there to watch you. I also think a sports psychologist would help you immensely
I’d add my voice to the getting the horse and yourself to a trainer and working through it under sympathetic supervision. Unfortunately, this is one of those problems that you can really only fix by throwing money and time at it.
But, it can be fixed! It’s pretty intimidating for most adult amateurs to move up to a big, forward mover. I went from my cute appy to a great big, boingy, forward thinking, and much more reactive warmblood… He’s a good boy without a mean bone in his body, but I needed a lot of help. (Sometimes, I still need a confidence-bolstering session–I’m old and have lots of broken parts!)
I agree with this. You only need to ride the new horse in lessons supervised. It can get ugly quick. Ride as many other horses as you can to get your confidence built up. I would consider finding someone to lease/ride a few days a week just to help cost and get the horse ridden.
Yes, I had a string of unsuitable horse that left me feeling like I was going to vomit every time I went to a show. I got dumped a lot. Did some of that eventually make me a better rider? Sure. I can stay on anything. Did lots of that give me long lasting PTSD? Absolutely. In fact, when I moved onto more suitable horses I suffered setbacks and gave them multiple bad habits because I couldn’t get over my fear issues.
You’re talking about a horse you never rode before you bought her and one that you are only comfortable doing groundwork with. You’re an older lower level ammy with better things to do than deal with a horse you’re only comfortable walking on while supervised. You lack access and funds for putting the horse in full time training and taking lessons on schoolmasters and this horse. You’re like 90% of other riders out there.
It has nothing to do with giving up. Your horse appears to be unsuitable for you and if you have the goal of getting to third level there are easier horses out there than one that you can hardly get on. You aren’t going to get to third that way.
Be realistic about your goals, your skills, your time, and your money.
You’ve identified PTSD as part of the problem. Do investigate Jo Cooper. She can help with that aspect of it. PTSD doesn’t go away with lunging and other approaches. That part of your problem needs a different approach. Simple fear, yes, can be managed with lots of horse time work. PTSD - no, IMHO (and in my personal experience - if I hadn’t gone this route I would not be riding today).
It’s not about what a rider WANTS but what a rider NEEDS to achieve his goals.
There really is no shame.
@BigMama1 : Well, 3 months is long when you are scared of your horse. I know the OP isn’t ready to ‘‘give up’’ yet (I don’t like that term because selling an unsuitable horse isn’t giving up to me - it’s doing the right thing) It’s 3 months where the OP is paying to be scared of a horse she cannot enjoy… How long is supposed to be too long? To me, she shouldn’t have bought the horse in first place knowing she had anxiety issues and didn’t have the funds to train properly.
The horse was in an heavy riding schedule… and was quiet then. Will the mare stay quiet now that she’s spent 3 months doing nothing? The OP is already feeling unsecure… how will it go when the mare gets more joyfull from time off? It’s the usual vicious circle… If the OP had access to regular training with a good Pro, I’d see no problem with this situation…
Your suggestions are really good ones, but all require money, which the OP doesn’t seem to have. Her last solution was to breed the mare if she was unable to ride her…
If there isn’t a basic level of compatability in what the horse needs from the rider and what the rider needs from the horse-- well it’s really hard to get through that, even with all the lessons in the world. (I’m talking about more of a mental/emotional thing, vs having the physical skills to ride the horse)
My one major rule for myself is I must have the confidence to WTC that horse, that day, with out help. If I can’t, then I don’t buy the horse. I don’t make excuses for why, it need to be that basic level.
I think an over horsed ammie can only gain confidence if they are in a solid lesson and training program. And even then it doesn’t always end well.
Unfortunately the only cost in “going up the levels” isn’t a talented horse. It’s also the ongoing lessons and training. Yes a few ammies do this on their own but they probably have basically low level pro skills and a knack for choosing horses they can effectively ride and train alone.
When I suggested longe lessons I meant that, not some random buddy longeing you at home.
I think you need to make a choice between getting this mare into a regular lesson and training program, or selling her and buying a horse that you ride alone.
I see nothing wrong with being a little under horsed
That said, real anxiety and PTSD is not the same as “fear of the bigger moving horse”. I don’t think one can “will yourself” to get over real issues, and training will definitely help-- the degree to which one can move past it really depends on your unique situation.
In the end, a rider who is in a fear state to the point they can’t even trot will present a lot of complicated things to the horse, and for a highly sensitive horse that can be very stressful. (and make behaviors worse).
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a calmer, slower horse. Build from a position of strength, not of weakness.
