Parelli have split

[walktrot]

I watched the WTF YouTube video with the loose reins and downward transitions. I guess they didn’t make enough money so that Linda could afford a helmet that fit over her ponytail. They had this deal where if you passed their Level 1 test you could certify Level 1 riders. Isn’t that how pyramid schemes work?

I ignored Julie Goodnight for years because I thought she was one of those NH flag-waving colt starters. Wrong. She did a really informative session at Equine Affaire, “How to ride until you are 90.” I audited a 2-day clinic and her flag was sitting on the ground somewhere. Her trailer loading session was short at the end of the clinic. Two horses. Both owners were told to hook up their trailers, pack everything right down to their toothbrushes, hang the hay nets, and park by the building. It took her about 10-15 minutes for each horse. Their head was always aimed toward the trailer. No circling, no looking off to the side. Take a few steps and stop. She used the flag to get them to take a lateral step to get back on the ramp. When each one was loaded the owner was instructed to get in the truck and leave.

It was a very quiet process. Nobody was frustrated including the horse. A very popular local NH trainer has you keep your flag resting on your shoulder. Handy. She gets really tough on the horse if he doesn’t get it. At which point she starts yanking on the lead rope and snapping the flag. Horse’s head is out of reach and he starts acting up. I always avoid her sessions, which are frequent.

At least the Parelli-ites seemed to have disappeared. I found a lead rope with the gigantic clip that got left behind. I figure if I ever need to bop him on the chin so he will backup I have the right equipment.

[Graymaresrule]

@Angela_Freda

Barney.
I’ll never forget that poor horse.

That was nothing compared with an exhibition he did in the UK with a jumper named Catwalk who was hard to bridle. AFAIK all video of it was pulled off the internet very quickly but it was seriously abusive

[skydy]

@Graymaresrule

@Angela_Freda

Barney.
I’ll never forget that poor horse.

That was nothing compared with an exhibition he did in the UK with a jumper named Catwalk who was hard to bridle. AFAIK all video of it was pulled off the internet very quickly but it was seriously abusive

I remember seeing that before it was taken down. IIRC he had the horse almost on the ground at one point, quite a few people in the audience left.

It was embarrassing that they were from the U.S.

[OverandOnward]

Parelli vs. Catwalk video … these are clearly just a few excerpts, because the actual session seems to have lasted over an hour and maybe much longer.

Pat Parelli Abuses Horse "Catwalk" at Natural Horsemanship Demonstration

IMO Parelli lost his cool with this horse. Catwalk was the kind of horse that would show up the fallacy of the Parelli method. The horse was just being a horse, he wasn’t doing anything weird or unusual.

This video really upset me when I first saw it because I had a horse that would have reacted much as Catwalk did in this video. My horse was very easy to handle if you practiced knowing horsemanship, but he was mistrustful and reactive to overbearing handling. If someone did what Parelli did in this video, my horse would have reacted in a similar way to Catwalk. And there are “trainers” out there who would respond in ways similar to Parelli.

I moved a couple of times and at each new board barn I would just say “use your best horsemanship and he’ll be the best horse”. It always worked out well. The staff would gradually look on that horse as a favorite because he was willing and affectionate with them once they had his confidence.

[Graymaresrule]

Thanks. I thought it had been scrubbed forever

[Ghazzu]

@Graymaresrule

Thanks. I thought it had been scrubbed forever

IIRC, there was a longer and more horrific video out there at the time. This is more than enough, though.

[OverandOnward]

Here’s a follow-up video published by “ParelliTube”.

Horse Training in UK with Pat Parelli, Robert Whitaker, Parelli Professionals...

There was a blog post on the Parelli blog about the controversy that followed. A link to the blog post no longer leads anywhere. This was quoted in one of many articles that flourished on the web, published by various people responding to what they saw.

“We ran 45 minutes over and a couple of folks were upset at what they think they saw, saying they may post on YouTube. We all have nothing to worry about except misunderstanding. Pat stopped at an appropriate time in the training process when he saw a breakthrough and preserved Catwalk’s dignity, which is more important than getting the bridle on tonight.” Parelli Blog

[Graymaresrule]

Yeah right. I remember thinking that horse wouldn’t pass a drug test.

[skydy]

@Ghazzu

@Graymaresrule

Thanks. I thought it had been scrubbed forever

IIRC, there was a longer and more horrific video out there at the time. This is more than enough, though.

Yes, it was terrible how long he kept on frightening that horse. Poor beastie.

[OverandOnward]

@skydy

Yes, it was terrible how long he kept on frightening that horse. Poor beastie.

So I saw somewhere that Parelli spent 2 hours on that session in front of the audience.

Wonder how many Parelli followers had second thoughts when Parelli apologists said that tying up a leg is part of the Parelli method.

Just IMO - One of the most important things about horse training is knowing when to stop because you are not making it better today. When you need a different setting, a different approach, just … something else. When you have to tell whoever is watching that we aren’t getting the results we’d like, so we need to take a step back and re-think what we are doing. Break it down into much tinier steps. Or something. But we are not going to carry on right now.

So after 2 hours of what they call “Session 1”, then the video above published by Parelli Industries of Pat petting the horse and fiddling with the bridle in “Session 2”, and “Session 3” with a man I assume is the horse’s owner … IMO the horse is still not sold on the idea. He is wearing a bridle, they fiddle with the headpiece, but Catwalk is showing agitation and a lack of acceptance of this thing on his head. Plus, the halter is still on underneath the bridle, indicating that Catwalk’s behavior is not golden with just the bridle.

They show Catwalk wearing a bridle. They move the bridle around a bit. They do not show how they got the bridle on Catwalk’s head.

Nowhere do they show Catwalk being bridled; then the bridle coming all the way off, then back on, off, on, etc. Much less Catwalk being relaxed and ok with it.

IMO - Catwalk hasn’t really changed his opinion. I doubt he will be an easy bridle from that point.

[OverandOnward]

At the time this video came out, I spent some time on it, because as mentioned previously, if my horse at the time had been handled like that, he would have behaved very much as Catwalk did.

(Human could not hang on his head as Parelli was insisting on doing with Catwalk’s lead. My horse had to have slack lead to come forward and cooperate. There was a tech at my vet’s practice who couldn’t get that into her head, she always ended up with an anchored, untrustful horse, even though it was very easy to have a cooperative, willing horse if she would just quit pulling pulling pulling.)

So, an opinion. All of the pro miracle horse trainers have the same main schtick: They show dramatic results with a horse in one session. Usually within 30 minutes or less.

This is fine for making an impression on an audience who needs to know that there are better ways than beating and forcing horses. Even a necessary technique to change some rigid minds.

But, I think it misrepresents the expectations people should have of even the most productive and kind training methods.

No matter how wonderfully the horse changes and accepts haltering, or loads in the trailer, or whatever, they are not reliable after one session. The mind can make a lot of progress in one session, but the new behavior is not ingrained as the default behavior. (Of course readers of this board are well aware of that.)

The clinician/trainer accomplishes this ‘miraculous’ change with strong relentless pressure that wears the horse down mentally, even after 10-20 minutes. There is no rest for the horse during the session to process. Horses finally get numb and seem to be cooperating, but they haven’t really processed. They are doing what is easiest in the moment.

There may have been some degree of breakthrough. The horse may be more willing the next session. But doubtful they will show a complete behavior change after one session.

I don’t know if these clinicians always make it clear that he/she is not horse-fixing - I think some do that better than others. Rather, the trainer is teaching skills to the audience to go use for themselves. Because the audience will need these skills. Because they still have a lot of work to do with This Horse on This Behavior.

My editorial opinion on the Catwalk fiasco:
Parelli fell victim to his own image of infallibility. Parelli had to have a one-session breakthrough in front of an audience that was an international expansion for him.

But Parelli got stuck on the Catwalk session because he went in the wrong direction with a mature horse that had a strongly-confirmed undesirable behavior. And then Parelli didn’t know how to back down, how to say ‘I need to take some time to better understand this horse and start again later’. He had to be infallible. He had to gin up something that he could pass off as a win, right now.

And Catwalk called him out on it. You go, Catwalk!

Just IMO.

[Bluey]

Catwalk was not the first to call PP out, here is another, I think from before Linda was on board:

Pat Parelli 1.mp4

[skydy]

@Bluey

Catwalk was not the first to call PP out, here is another, I think from before Linda was on board:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ueprRcH5B4

Who loads a horse (or attempts to) into an unhitched trailer? No one that I’ve ever known.

[skydy]

Yikes! Too busy basking in applause and hugging the owner to remember the horse in the trailer.

[OverandOnward]

Small horse, big man. Is the pretty lady owner going to hang on like that when the horse takes off across the pasture? Can he do that with a 1400 lb warmblood?

[TMares]

@skydy the trailer was chocked/couldn’t rock.

[walktrot]

It’s not the chocks. All they do is keep it from rolling forward or backward. If they are large enough.

It’s the hitch. The trailer hitch is attached to the truck. The truck holds it up and keeps it steady. If the trailer is parked and not hitched, the jack, or a piece of tree stump, or the jack on a piece of scrap lumber to keep it from sinking and freezing in the mud - that is what you rely on. Not a good idea. Horses don’t like things that don’t feel solid when they step on them, like a trailer ramp on crooked ground. They sure shouldn’t be standing in or on something that could collapse under their weight.

[skydy]

@TMares

@skydy the trailer was chocked/couldn’t rock.

AS Walktrot mentioned, it doesn’t matter that the trailer was chocked. It needs to be hitched to be safe.

[Old_Mac_Donald]

Now this is interesting:

(Jesse Peters FB page)

On Thanksgiving morning, I woke up at 4:30 am with deep, heavy and important thoughts that I knew I would wrestle with beyond the normal waking hours of the morning. Will the thoughts pass so I can grab 3 more hours of sleep? Nope, those insomnia Jeopardy questions and answers roll around in my mind as I grab onto my new forward professional focus. Will there be change for Jesse and the Peters family? Yes! When you decide to enter into a horsemanship learning adventure with me next week, month or year, will it be “different”? YES, it will! Allow me to explain.

The Wednesday before Thanksgiving I woke up with a fire in my heart that I was going to help find a way to bridge and help coordinate between the two most important and influential mentors in my professional life, Pat and Linda Parelli. Pat and Linda co-founded the Parelli Natural Horsemanship program that has become the guiding beacon of who I am as a horseman and professional. It has even tweaked and helped guide the shape of who I have become as a husband and father. As many of you know, Pat and Linda have decided to divorce and this has shaken the PNH program’s core body. Students and Instructors have many questions. One of the questions I am being asked is, “Should I stay with the Parelli Savvy Club or join Linda’s Happy Horse Happy Life Journey?” My answer has been STAY with Parelli and continue with the principles of the program. If you want to explore what Linda Parelli Is building…. Well do that too! The programs will be different yet very complementary! Do both or choose one as you follow your heart. Find a way to give yourself a YES answer instead of feeling like you have to choose. There doesn’t have to be a choice for students, each person needs to find their version of YES. By the time I went to bed last Wednesday, Parelli professionals were reminded of the expectations of what Pure Parelli means in our agreement as Parelli professionals. I love and respect that standard, because it has maintained the highest standards for so many professionals and former Parelli Professionals over the years. So that means that I have to choose between my 2 greatest mentors Pat OR Linda……. NOT Pat and Linda. Apparently, there will be no “Joint Custody” options for Parelli Professionals.
I am, in this moment, one of 16 of the highest ranked Parelli Instructors in the world. Parelli 5 Star Master Instructor and Horse Development Specialist Jesse Peters. The investment in my journey to this earned professional title with a respected brand has taken only 20 years! I first saw Pat and Linda back in 2000 at the Ohio Equine Affair and they blew my mind!!! That changed my horsemanship path forever beyond that day! In 2005 I chose to give up a career as a High School Horsemanship instructor to join Pat and Linda on their 1st ever world class faculty team. I do not regret any of my PNH journey or look back in a negative light. I will move forward with friendship, love, kindness and gratitude to Pat Parelli for all he has taught me over those years. I get to take all of the passion, heart and knowledge with me and find ways to make it my own. For knowledge is one of the greatest gifts and cannot be taken away at any point by anyone except by God. Thank You very much to Pat Parelli and the entire Parelli Family! The only thing I leave behind is my Parelli Professional License and official PNH title. Now in this moment…. I am a Former Parelli 5 Star Master Instructor and Horse Development Specialist, and still proud.
I have been contemplating my continuing journey since Linda announced her new focus and new company. Parelli Natural Horsemanship has made it clear in a professional’s email from Pat Parelli that no professionalbridge between programs will be available. In THIS moment, I choose to professionally follow and be guided by the mentor that has impacted me the most from my inside out, Linda Parelli. I do not make this choice lightly; I am following my heart. As I examine my current overall student base and envision what they truly WANT in their future…… I can see that they want Linda Parelli. This does not mean that the PNH program is not needed by them. Linda has a proven track record of delivering exactly what a progressive student base needs and wants as a part of their journey. I remember a morning back in 2006 when Linda came rolling into the faculty meeting going on and on about this vision she had for this model she literally dreamed about that night called Horsenality! As for me, Linda is the one who was there to train and develop the faculty team on campus and challenged each of us to be the best we could become! I have learned so much about me, personal development, teaching, learning, people, horses, psychology, professionalism, and so much more!!! Having jumped off the proverbial fence; I am excited and thankful for my family, my students, our horses, a new professional journey, for Linda’s new adventure, and for ME! Linda’s new adventure Happy Horse Happy Life is developing a complementary program exploring and integrating intelligent riding, horse behavior, psychology, health and emotional fitness. A huge Heartfelt Thank You goes out to Pat Parelli, Linda Parelli, Parelli Professionals, Parelli Students, our horses and most of all my Family! I PLAY onward and I am very excited for what the future holds!!!”

[shiloh]

Glug glug glug…down goes the Kool-Aid.
These people…