on Gail Hulick… although she does suffer from severe diabetes… she is not blind… her eyesight may not be 100 %… but definitly not blind… she actually teaches riding full time at a school for mentally and physically challeged children…
If it was some other trainer not involved in that stuff that had placed that ad about how wonderful they are you bet your sweet bippy ( 
) that I’d be on here saying they were tacky. No matter who you are that is just plain tacky.
I know lots of people (trainers, etc) read this board and dont post. Anyone who reads this and sees that not nice things are said about them, hello, wake up call. Now you know what the general public thinks of you. 
Tacky, tacky, tacky. He may be a talented trainer, but I’d rather put $10,000 in a pit and watch it burn than hand it over to him for training me. People have the right to their own opinions and to make their own choices and many people choose to associate with these people regardless of their shall we say… problems. But I know many alcoholics who went through AA sucessfully and years later went back to drinking. Whos to say there wont be a repeat performance? And what if they dont get caught this time. If anything, this experience made them all a ton smarter.
I think I need medication… I get bent out of shape way too easily about things that will never have any direct effect on me.
Yeehaw- Formerly RF
COTH BB Resident Cowgirl
"She’s gone country… look at them boots, shes gone country… back to her roots, shes gone country, a new kind of suit… SHES GONE COUNTRY!! HERE SHE COMES!!! 
I wondered about whether or not to post on this topic. My state horseshow association is going to hire Paul V. to judge our Medal Finals for 2002. Because of the timing of our show we have a hard time finding judges that can do it (due to regualtions about judging Zone and state finals during the same time period). One of the members of our committee rode with PV as a junior and still speaks with him. He is very excited to do our show (not AHSA rated). I remember all of the events and it sickens me to think about those beautiful animals suffering a horrific death. I treasure my animals. So, while I believe that he will do a great job as a judge(he is a knowledgeable equitation trainer) I am not sure about deserving the chance we are giving him. To forgive is one of the more noble things a person can do, I certainly won’t forget what was done. Many people do terrible things, and MAYBE he is truely repentent. If so, that deep, dark hole in his soul should serve as a daily reminder to him of the pain he caused in the name of money. He wasn’t the only one, he just got caught. I don’t think that it makes him any better or worse than the others, he will always be known for that deed if we don’t forget. Sorry to ramble, I have been thinking a lot about this and am still tryng to figure out how
I will deal with next fall. I have had the opportunity to go and ride with him but chose not to. I don’t think I want to get that close.
Sadly, Ryan, one of the horses had previously been very successful. When it failed to be as successful with the new pro, the original owner offered to buy it back for the same price. To bad the new pro’s ego was even larger than his amazingly large wallet. He was certainly not going to let the horse go back and be a success, when it so obviously wasn’t with him.
‘If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t more people happy?’
Uh, guys, if you stop adding posts to it, it will go away by itself…
for donating money to animals. The point is… does he have to exploit that in the Chronicle? I think not. That was specifically for his personal gain and you know it.
Yeehaw- Formerly RF
COTH BB Resident Cowgirl
"She’s gone country… look at them boots, shes gone country… back to her roots, shes gone country, a new kind of suit… SHES GONE COUNTRY!! HERE SHE COMES!!!
Wonder, if you choose not to show due to Paul’s presence, then I think it would be your duty to write a letter to show management explaining your decision. If you truly feel strongly then you have every right to stand up and voice your concern/opinion.
I have to agree with everyone that feels that this cannot be forgotton by anyone in the horse industry. Anyone hiring him is condoning his act of cruelty.
Speak up!
For those who feel it was a mistake or gee he paid for his crime, I say . . . perhaps the reason you feel that way is you believe that what he did was not truly that awful? I would have to question a person’s morals at that point hmmm?
Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!
okay - fine - I give up
I am going to have to go out and buy a second copy of Hot Blood since I cannot locate my original
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl:
Erin, I don’t think “new thoughts in the last 10 pages” is what it’s about. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But when people are just repeating themselves over and over and OVER and saying the same exact things… well, it’s like the helmet threads. You can voice your indignation as much as you want (and y’all have, for 17 pages), but I don’t think you’re going to change anyone’s mind.
You can only say “How can you do such a thing!” so many times… 
>> . of course there are NO STABLES UNDER THE PENTAGON, just as there are no civilian horses stabled in midtown Manhattan south of 42nd Street! It’s called satire, m’love. <<
thanks, InWhyCee, for the reality check … me thinks I’ve been drafting too many financial contracts to detect satire at the moment …
Furthermore, the rate of recidivism among child molestors is incredibly high – and there are some psych. pros who’ll contend that it’s an incurable ‘disease’ and the only ‘safety’ afforded the public is castration.
I am in no way whatsoever defending PV.
And I think that people who had no previous connections with him and have chosen to give him business since his acts are pretty much inexcusable.
However, I would maybe take into consideration that Paul was (and presumably still is?) an incredibly charasmatic man who was often considered by his clients to be a great friend as well as a tremendously productive and successful trainer. A good friend stands by you even when you foul up. A good friend may not agree and may hate what you have done, but will at least give you the benefit of the doubt and try to understand and go on. And so, in regards to the people who were clients/friends of his before his days of crime, I can understand how they may still give him business and associate with him.
And to those who think the fact that he still has anything to do with horses means he has not been punnished enough, consider how very much PV loved to sit ringside and watch his customers and horses go. And consider how much he loved to be there for his many victories. I can hardly say for sure for I have not seen the man or really heard a thing about him since his downfall, but I would think that his life is no where close to what it used to be when he ruled the showgrounds. And I would not sell the mental repercussions of that fact short as part of his punishment. Giving lessons and still working with horses is just great, but anyone who ever saw what Paul was like at the ring should probably see how different it must be for him now.
I am merely playing devil’s advocate here… I, personally, think he’s scum and would never, ever dream of giving him business.
The Law & Order episode – what was the poor horse’s name? Mr. something? So the detectives get a call that Mr. ______ has been murdered at the horse show, go to investigate, and find that Mr. ______ is a horse.
Neither the poor girl who owns and dearly loves the horse nor her trainer know that her super-rich father arranged to have poor Mr. ________ killed. Dad wanted him killed because the horse wasn’t winning, the daughter loved him too much to sell just because of that, and Dad wanted to end the embarassement of losing and collect the insurance. The detectives confront the father with the evidence that he had the horse killed, but the father hadn’t filed the insurance claim yet, so they couldn’t charge him with fraud – and killing your own horse in and of itself isn’t a crime.
That was the introductory subplot that led to the main plot about the murder of a rich woman by one of the people in the horse killing scheme because the playboy had sold her a string of overpriced horses and defrauded her and she was going to expose him (the lightly disguised Helen Brach case).
At least in the L&O story (unlike the real life cases), all of the people who were really involved with the horse – the daughter, trainer, groom – all loved the horse and cared for him. The father’s punishment was that his daughter would hate him forever because of what he did.
Nicely said…
Yes, apparently Lindeman Jr. wanted to be the first, or one of the first, to qualify for the USET or the US Olympic team in both show jumping and dressage. He bought Graf George – who was already a top Grand Prix dressage horse and I think had already been to the Olympics – and then hired, wasn’t it Robert Dover?, as a trainer.
While his criminal case was pending in the federal courts, he got an injunction against the AHSA requiring him to be allowed to ride in classes that were for international rankings or qualfiers. Then he got convicted, his permanent AHSA suspension was upheld, and that was that. He sold his horses, but I don’t know whether he also sold Cellular Farms.
Extremely well said, Portia, as usual.
BUt I was bored and I HAD to read it ALL 9 pages .First of all what Yellow Dog said early on ME TOO !!!
Second of all I think those of you who knw me don’t need to guess my feelings on this subject…
I have actually met one of the guys who was deeply involved in the Brach case.
My final comment?? total astonishment that anyone could forget any of this horrible CRAP!!!
Kitty - GL received a USET Developing rider grant, and was allowed to ride in USET - sponsored qualifying classes (in Dressage) during the period up to his conviction. The AHSA (now USA Eq) fought him every step of the way - and it cost them a LOT of money to stand behind their decision to expell him. Even AB gives Jane Clark due credit and praise for her leadership in this expensive fight. The AHSA DID win in court, as you all know.
Everyone should read HOT BLOOD. Remember, these people were not convicted of cruelty to animals, rather they were convicted of federal wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud. As I have mentioned before, PV worked out a deal with the FBI whereby he wore a WIRE for over a year. Given the propensity for many of these people for violence, that took some guts. (Of course, it was wear a wire or go to jail for a long time…) Joe Plemmons of Cryostar International in PA also got some time off his sentence for talking to the authorities and pointing a long finger at the guilty. [Note from Erin: Plemmons’ testimony was about the Helen Brach case. Plemmons was not indicted in the insurance scandal.]
Also, you MUST remember that these people are only the TIP of the iceberg. BECAUSE they were convicted for wire fraud et al, there is a statute of limitations on their crimes. A NUMBER of others who are BNT’s in our world were also caught, but not convicted because, by the time all the evidence was collected, the statute of limitation had passed. Just think of the “one-hit wonders” of the 70’s and 80’s that came and went - quite literally.
Very very sick and very very sad. 
[This message was edited by SoEasy on Dec. 07, 2001 at 10:59 PM.]
[This message was edited by Erin on Dec. 09, 2001 at 11:45 PM.]
This could be a sticky topic. Remember to stick to published facts (not on a bb) only. No rumors or innuendos.
I hearby offer to teach anyone who sends me $20 how to write COTH BB posts for all occasions! Sad, commentary, witty, contest entries, you name it - I’ll cover it in my 3 day Clinic “Bodatious BB Blurbs”. I’ll donate $10 from each student to the COTH horse rescue fund!
Kryswyn rolls eyes and hopes everyone realizes this is a JOKE but clearly indicates how tacky these kinds of self serving ads are.
~Kryswyn~
“Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo”
