Paul Valliere Ad -October 26

[Weatherford]

Unfortunately, the horses bio’ed weren’t the only ones who “went missing”.

The author of Hot Blood mentions that others were under suspicion (that is, they had hired Tommy Burns) for previous killings, but went unpunished due to the statute of limitations.

I have little forgivness for Paul Valiere. I give him credit for risking his life to wear “a wire” for the authorities for over a year during the investigation. I also look at a lot of other BNTs (including some that I have held in incredibly high regard as horsepeople and riders), and I wonder. Some of these people are the uncaught guilty. Some are only guilty (in my mind) by association.

How can you separate a horseman from his or her “friends” - especially when the latter are guilty?

I continue to struggle with this issue, and I find the thing sad and disheartening. I appreciate everyone comments and passion on the subject.

Please try to be polite within you passion, however. Thanks.

[Bumpkin]

Thank you for that eye opener.
I agree how can anyone who stands up for this person have any respect in the Horse world?

[gray17htb]

…EXACTLY. People, wake up. This man killed horses to put cash in his pocket, it was NOT a mistake!

[Wonder_Why]

LucassB, I don’t know what the end result of his being the judge will be. I will probably not show for a couple of reasons (I am focusing on jumpers as they are more objective than the eqs. I have good eq. but a small, 15 h. Arab as my main show horse!!! so, that can be a bit of an issue in the eqs at the finals - off topic I know!!) and the other reason may be that I am not entirely comfortable with this choice.

SGray, yes this is a state in the Northeast, NH. I don’t even know if I should be stating who the judge will be at this point but people will find out and I think that it is their right to know. He probably will be very fair and definately knows what to be looking for in an equitation round. I will just have to see how it all plays out.

[Paloma]

Some of you claim that this man regrets what he did. I seriously doubt that. I fully believe he regrets getting caught .

To those of you who support him financially, in my opinion, you are condoning his actions and this disgusts me, and so do you.

This man, and the others (George Lindemann, Barney Ward, etc.) did not make a “mistake”. A mistake is an unintentional consequence of an action that was taken. It was not a mistake that these horses died; that was the [B] intent!!! [/B]. It was deliberate and required a great deal of forethought and planning. And the motivation for this was greed , pure and simple. The well-being of the horse obviously had nothing to do with it; therefore, these people do not qualify as horsemen.

What really gets my knickers in a knot, is if it weren’t for horses, these people would have been nobodys. It was the talent and trust of these creatures that made these people who they were. It was the association with these “big names” that made these horses worth the money. And because these “big names” claimed they were worth this money, the insurance companies believed them and assigned these high values. Afterall, they were the “experts”, right? And so, these noble creatures, who made these people look good and thus became “valuable” had to die, because these people were greedy.

And yet people who claim to be horsepeople continue to patronise these bastards, thus condoning their actions. You are rewarding them for what they have done. Why?

Sorry, but there are plenty of other trainers out there with infinitely better credentials. Why not patronise them instead?

Those horses deserved so much better. They trusted these people with their lives, and look what it got them.

And to whoever said that Paul has given “so much” to the equine community, yeah, right. After what he did, your comment is like saying he is noble for dropping a counterfeit $10 in the Salvation Army basket. Puhleeze!

I hope they all burn in Hell…where’s my flame-thrower?

~~Keep your electric eye on me, babe.
Put your ray gun to my head.
Press your space-face close to mine, luv.
Freak out in a moon-age day dream, oh yeah! ~~

[buryinghill2]

This is why this thread should not go away…

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lmlacross:

Also, I want to know more about these horses allegly stabled under the pentagon. Is this true? I had no idea there was a stable under the Pentagon.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven’t found one bit of evidence to support such a claim … if the original person who suggested this can further elaborate it would be appreciated.

Pentagon details

[Jane]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BronkBusterTX:
Someone said that Paul has unofficialy been hired to judge what I am guessing is the NH Medal Finals.

That their trainer used to ride with him and still keeps in touch with him.

BUT you are considering NOT riding in the Finals.

You support her, she supports him. Yet he is the one that you have the gripe with. I sense a little incontinuity there.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, she never said it was her trainer who used to ride with PV…here’s the direct quote from her post on how this came about: “One of the members of our committee rode with PV as a junior and still speaks with him.”.

[Dementia_13]

As far as I know the vet’s license was not pulled. She is still showing and competes in Ami Owner jumpers.

How nice for her, don’t you think?

I know I’d just looooove to have someone like that as my vet.

I guess she wasn’t around when they taught ethics in vet school.

[buryinghill1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumphigh83: They may be beating a dead horse…"…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Midge]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goodmudder:
Do you all not have anything better to do? I am neither defending nor attacking this man - it’s over, it’s done with, it’s been dealt with. Give it a rest.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, it is not over and done with, since he will certainly attempt reinstatement once the ten years are up and all those ‘Thank you Paul Valliere’ ads and the ‘I’m giving a boatload of money to save animals’ ads are going to be trotted forth as evidence of a changed man. I don’t want it ignored, revised or remembered in any other way than a dispicable act by a person I think should be thanking his lucky stars he is still able to make a living in the horse business and not touting his charitable contributions in an equine publication.

Fortunately for me, all the better things I have to do do not prevent me for doing lesser things. God save me from a world where every minute is taken up with ‘better’ things.

[Michelle_Mc]

Wow! what tidbits do I get for lunch?!

Isn’t this chat drifting a bit?
The subject of this thread was convicted, and punished, for a crime other than today’s discussion. He should not be lumped in with the cretins with whom I deal daily.

finis.

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jSTR:
Granted, his was an exceptionally bad one, but was a mistake, nonetheless.QUOTE]

What is with this trend towards referring to both criminal and morally represhensible actions as “mistakes”?

It strikes me as a cheap cop out.

It wasn’t only s mistake, it was a crime and an abomination.

I’d be very leery that someone who could rename such an act as a “mistake” isn’t completely owning yp to the responsiblity they bear.

Mind you, I’m not saying this is the case with PV, but there is a definite trend of folks who get caught at various things (certain chief executives come to mind) who apoligize for making a “mistake” and seem astonished that doesn’t make everyone happy.

[havaklu]

I believe it was “who was Ross Hugi DVM” who wore the wire (I sure he was one of many). But I don’t know who he was speeking with…

As far as L&O. Yeah I’ve seen that episode loads of times and it is a combo Helen Brach/Horse Killing plot. The Horsekiller they call “Sandman” would have been alluding to Tommy Burns aka the Sandman. And I think Tommy Burns must have worn a wire as well since I believe he was the “witness for the prosocution”.

[buryinghill1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Abby:
Nicely said…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[BLBGP]

Who owned Charisma before Lindemann? Poor horses…

[PMJ]

I think a line was crossed between the abuse one can see at shows which should be reported and the type where a horse’s intential planned death becomes a means to a profitable payday.

[lauriep]

and it is not my personal feeling, just a possible rationale for some of the “it’s ok” postings.

Perhaps folks that take lessons from him are able to make a distinction between taking a riding lesson from him, where he really has no reason to ever even touch their horse, and leaving a horse IN HIS CARE. Maybe in these people’s minds, they are not really aiding and abetting him at what he was convicted of.

This may be especially true for people who weren’t in the business when the **** hit the fan. It may be much easier for them to separate themselves from PV’s history since they have only heard of it third, fourth or tenth hand.

Because of this, I think being hard on these people probably isn’t fair. They just don’t make the same connections that the rest of us do.

Laurie

[Midge]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BLBGP:
Who owned Charisma before Lindemann? Poor horses…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Wheelers of Cismont Manor Farm owned Charisma and subsequently sold him to GL.

‘If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t more people happy?’

[Bumpkin]

As long as The Chronicle of The Horse has the same great articles, results, letters and information about Hunting and Horses in Sport, I don’t mind if trainers and owners put in full page advertisements.
They pay for the magazine.

Now if the ads made less room for the features that I do like then I would not be happy

I am confident the COTH would never lower her standards.

I have been reading this wonderful magazine since the 50’s and other than not seeing anymore racing or Cooky McClung, boohoo, it is the same.