What a hard place to be in. Personally, I could not in good conscience show at a show, recognized or not, that supported such a person by making them an employee and placing him in the position of authority.
Something that surprises me is that students of some of these trainers who say, ‘Oh it was just one mistake.’ don’t think back to the rather odd circumstances surround the deaths of horses they owned. I mean, horses so rarely break their legs in stalls, especially so soon after they were expected to win at the Garden and didn’t, or die after the child outgrows their pony, or after the equitation horse is too lame to really win at the top any more.
‘If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t more people happy?’
Anybody notice yet another ‘gratitude’ ad in COTH last week from a prominent trainer that thanked PV for his help during the show season with a particular rider?
“Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.”
On this thread you see before you the beginnings of forgetfulness… the youngsters who were in diapers or leadline when the killings took place. Junior riders now who only know how “nice” PV is. Adults who knew/know PV and feel for him the way people who don’t/never knew him cannot. We cannot permit this to happen. Sorry.
Rather than an ad that will bring in business under the guise of charity, I’d begin to have a return of some respect for the man if I learned he was speaking at high schools as a motivational speaker against greed and winning is everything. That he would publically confess … repeatedly … that what he did was not a mistake, but a deliberate act to sacrifice a trusting animal to make money. That his ‘mistake’ if you will, was the belief that money is more important than respect, more important than trust, more important than being a role model for your son.
Who knows, after giving that talk to 50 high schools, he might believe it.
~Kryswyn~
“Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo”
From what I understand a convicted child molestor has gotten back into training after he served his time in jail, Care to send any kids to Florida with him?
well I hope that she does well – for her horses’ sake
Hi Erin,
For some people, talking about this subject (even if it seems a bit redundant)is therapeutic. The average horse lover just can’t fathom the horrific actions that are being discussed, and reading and writing about it helps them come to terms with something that was horrifying.
Yes, the thread would go away if everyone stopped writing about it, but that won’t change history and make those horses live again. Due to this fact, talking about those horses and remembering them helps us honor them. It also helps keep the emphasis on doing what is right for all horses.
Hallie McEvoy
Kryswyn - is there really an episode on this? LOL don’t make fun of me, I would just be really interested in watching it…
http://jrsclique.proboards.com/index.cgi
Junior Clique!
What if the Hokey-Pokey IS what it’s all about?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heidi-ugh:
Furthermore, the rate of recidivism among child molestors is incredibly high – and there are some psych. pros who’ll contend that it’s an incurable ‘disease’ and the only ‘safety’ afforded the public is castration.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
or death
If anyone wanted to know, I remember that the bios on the killed horses was in the Holiday Gift Mart Issue. Random knowledge.
was the horse who was murdered in the Law and Order episode. A&E has a City Confidential episode about Chicago and the “horsey set”.
This is the impression our sport casts on the general public, bad horses, drop a blow torch under the 4 horse trailer and burn them alive for the insurance money, as these people did. They also torched barns and killed people. Earned the nickname Chicago mafia.
I’ve had a couple that did not work out, one mare I hated but I sold or gave them to good homes, I did not hire somebody to kill them then defraud insurance agencies to collect. That is the big difference. I ate the loss. The animal lived.
Besides the names mentioned others were convicted who have returned to the business. It is up to us to act like consumers and check out anybody we deal with.
With the reality of animal rights wackos trying to eliminate all use of horses other then running wild let me ask you this;
Can we afford an Olympic Up Close and Personal moment with anybody connected to horrifically killing horses (like breaking their legs with crowbars or burning them) to collect insurance?
This will eliminate our sport. These people are too short sighted to realize their actions condemn us all in the eyes of the public.
We absolutely cannot return them to former status.
They bring us all down.
From Allergy Valley USA
You caught me while trying to add a bit to my post realizing it would be misinterpreted.
Like I said not making any excuses for fraud and
cruelty… the comment just made me pause and think. Also, again, not excusing anyone nor saying it is right, but weren’t most of the convictions being discussed for insurance fraud, not animal cruelty…which goes back to the Law and Order episode where the father couldn’t be convicted because he had not made a claim…but would suffer his daughters hatred and contempt the rest of his life?
Wasn’t George Lindeman also given some type of AHSA Developing Rider Award during this whole mess? I seem to recall that, because at the time it seemed ridiculous to me that someone with such vast financial resources would even allow himself to be considered for any kind of monetary “gift” from the AHSA. Unless it was actually from the dressage group, the USDF? But I do recall his going to Europe to participate and that happened after he was indicted for his crimes against horses. I also remember the booing at the big May Old Salem Farm Charity shows, probably in l995 or l996, when he was riding Threes and Sevens in the Grand Prix there. That was when the Pepsi Challenge existed. He had won the first weekend’s grand prix and might have actually gotten the $1,000,000 if he’d won the grand prix the second weekend.
I don’t know anyone involved in this at all and no, do not know all the facts.
Just wanted to say that a person who orders to have an animal killed in the way the horses involved with this case were killed simply to line their own pockets are even worse than the a-holes who purposely run down animals in the street. I realize that they may have pieces and parts of the character that is kind, gracious, a good trainer, remourseful, etc. - sorry, makes no difference to me. To knowingly plan something like this is an absolute atrocity, regardless of the reasoning they laid behind it or their remourse after the fact.
Manslaughter is a mistake, murder is not (and yes, arranging for a hit man to kill a human somone is considered murder and people have been sentenced to death for doing so)
Behind every good woman lies a trail of men
Actually Michelle Mc is a criminal defense attorney … and sometimes her job is AWFUL.
Do a search on her name, and find some of the early posts, especially the last time we all got on this general subject.
An early afternoon ride is something she richly deserves every now and then.
I’m pretty sure (99%) they are divorced.
i think what paul valliere did was despicable. but doesn’t anyone believe in forgiving. he is paying for his crime against animals. there is a chance that he feels badly for what he did. if he wants to donate to animals then that is a good thing. the animals can sure benefit from his donations. have you ever done somthing wrong and felt remorse about it and hoped that people would forgive you? paul valliere went from a top top eq trainer to not even allowed on a horse show grounds. i am sure he feels the punishment. no one can get inside his head & know for sure if he truly feels remorse or if he just wants to be reinstated. but i think it is not right for someone to knock someone for trying to do something good. he wants to donate his money for a good cause. i do not feel this is disgusting!
NO…It is purely coincidence that he is laying a long and winding PAPER TRAIL to “prove” reformation. Maybe the parole officers can provide us lists of reformed pedophiles for our babysitting needs…I think the whole thing is pretty sickening. I feel sorry for those who are jumping through hoops in defense of such actions. How can you discount moral character and leave your kids or horses in the influence of someone who is sorely lacking in that department.
Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way…
Where has all the respectability, the honour, the dignity, gone out of being a judge? It’s bad enough he’s still a trainer but now he’s judging a major horse show? What a joke.
My horse has ten times the class of this individual. (Even when he slobbers all over me.)
Remind me to never play cards with those people!! 
How sad, and seems to me, so utterly preventable…
“Of course, that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.” - Dennis Miller
