Paul Valliere Ad -October 26

[Kryswyn]

Watch your TV listings for an episode of Law & Order, guest starring Frank Converse as a horse trainer and lover of older, wealthy, gullible women. It opens w/ a Big Eq. horse dying suspicously while being stabled overnight in the city.

They’ve compressed the various characters to one (Converse) but in one hour, you’ll get the gist of the Helen Brach/Insurance Killing tragedy.

~Kryswyn~
“Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo”

[This message was edited by Kryswyn on Nov. 01, 2001 at 09:41 PM.]

[Wonder_Why]

This is a rather hot topic, as it should be. I want a judge for our show that is knowledgeable and will do the best job possible as people work their butts off to qualify, besides, it costs a lot too. I believe that PV will provide that service. Do I agree with what was done - NO WAY. I can tell you, after having been involved in this show for the past 9 years, it is extremely difficult to get a high level judge at this time of year. I think that PV was thought for a couple of reasons: A personal connection due to their junior years of riding with him, knowing that he would be available, and as it was stated, “it’s like hiring an ex-con, giving someone a second chance”. I have mixed feelings about the entire thing, I can see why this is being done but then again I think that it may be rather questionable (morality and taste wise). If people in the organization have issues with this decision, they need to speak with their trainers (many are on the committee) or write to the comittee. Also, I need to make clear that my decision to probably not ride in the Finals is due to two factors: I am focusing on jumpers and maybe also due to my mixed feelings about the judging situation.

[JulieMontgomery]

Very succinct. Very well put! My thoughts exactly…

[Paloma]

I agree with another poster who says it is theraputic to “vent”. We’re behaving ourselves and using enormous restraint in not using 4-letter words to describe this scum (Oops! scum is a 4-letter word ).

I digress…
What Paul did was not a mistake; it was blatantly, premeditatively intentional . It was an horrific deliberate act. It was murder for hire. This thread should not die; it is important that people realise who this “man” is and what he has done, and that people who willingly associate with him are tacitly condoning his actions and therefore no better than the “man” himself. [:insert puking icon here:]

Word of mouth does work. If by keeping this thread alive, we keep one more person who is not familiar with this man from putting one more dollar in that man’s wallet, then it is worth it.

~~This is Ground Control to Major Tom
You’ve really made the Grade,
and the papers want to know whose shirts you wear…~~

[HSM]

In response to Goodmudder’s post on another (locked) thread:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Since it has come to my attention recently that a large number of us get great satisfaction from criticizing others, even if we have no personal knowledge of that target… <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personal knowledge is not necessary when an issue is a matter of public record.

[Portia]

I agree, Michelle, child molesters are pretty much off the topic of this thread.

[Weatherford]

Unfortunately, he has quit writing…

[CBS]

I am totally at a loss, I read that advertisement of his… WHAT ANIMALS DIED on 9/11??? I was thinking that the victims had animals, i.e… dogs, or cats, or pets that were left at home, where the victims did not return, and were now homeless! From my understanding there were people that died from these terrorist attacks… NOT animals??? Please clue me in!!! Call me stupid, but I have not heard any newscasts that reported animals had perished??? HELLO!!!

[Lucassb]

You beat me to it.

And MPB, I think you make a great point about rights vs. privileges.

There ARE so many riding/teaching professionals out there who will not lie/cheat/whatever to “build” their business - they have more integrity than income, most times. I agree that few of them could give up 50% of their incomes and survive. They work with students from a multitude of backgrounds and financial situations, not to mention all sorts of horses. Many of them teach HORSEMANSHIP along with their “riding lessons” - but they aren’t getting wealthy doing it.

---

To appreciate heaven well
'Tis good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell.
Will Carleton (1845-1912)

[Anne]

Are Buddy and Donna still married?

[Portia]

I’m sorry you took my statement as a “rant against the USET,” Charis.

It was intended as a statement of facts discussed at the USOC hearing, and a statement of my opinion regarding why the issue is relevant and why we must all be alert to conflicts of interest and other situtations that can either actually compromise or give the appearance of compromising the welfare of our horses.

The admitted and proven fact is, Paul Valliere arranged to have a horse killed to collect insurance money. That is something I cannot overlook, regardless of how “nice” or “kind” a person he may otherwise appear to be.

[Leesa]

Deal with the consequences of your actions whatever the particular situation. Mr. Valliere’s result of his actions should be the permanent loss of the privilege of attending horse shows for the reasons mentioned above.

I believe people deserve second chances when they use bad judgement, but his actions went way beyond bad judgement.

[Seven]

I confess to only understanding the surface of this scandel (mostly because it is too sickening to try and understand any further) and to not having read “Hot Blood” (although I know I should) but I have seen all the A&E documentaries and I have been wondering something…

Does anyone else remember a fabulous Jr. (I think) Hunter named Rain Forest that won tons in the early 80s? I was getting out of showing at the time, and woefully “out of the loop”, but I recall a friend telling me that he had unexpectedly died under mysterious circumstances. Was that horse ever suspected as part of these poor unfortunates? I’ve noticed that some posters are refering to horses and people that have not been named for various reasons and I just wonder if this horse would fall into that category?

=^+^=

[buryinghill2]

I don’t get the print version of the Chronicle. What does this ad say?

[Dementia_13]

'm now signing off of this BB so flame away…my only prayer is that your hearts and minds are enlightened sometime in the future

---

And no doubt your’s will be in the very near future, Charis.

Let’s not forget that dear Mr. V did not exactly have a sterling record before the horse killing business.

[BronkBusterTX]

Actually Paul has several old equitation horses and jumpers retired at his farm in Rhode Island, Acres Wild/Sail Away.

I’m not saying he is a saint, but I know he cares deeply for these horses and makes sure they get WHATEVER attention they need. No one hears of stuff like this. Not many realize the GOOD he has done for the equine community.

WE ALL KNOW the harm he has caused. He will never be forgotten for that. I don’t think any of us should forget. He has done some really good stuff that we just wouldn’t hear about normally. Stuff that WE TAKE FOR GRANTED that a good horseman would do.

[can_t_re]

I am in the middle of reading Hot Blood. I am so sickened by the description of Streewise’s death…I need to share.
“…the well muscled stable hand, as if trying to emulate Hank Aaron going for the fence in right center, swung a crowbar with all his considerable strength…The crack of the leg breaking could be heard by the other agents a quarter of a mile away…Streetwise let out a horrendous scream…Streetwise collapsed in a bellowing heap…then the animal hopped up on his three good legs and tried to gallop away. All the while, the animal wailing like an air-raid siren, obviously in excrutiating pain.”
How sick is that???

As is our confidence, so is our capacity.
~W. Hazlitt

[Goodmudder]

Well, I guess that the board ran out of people to trash, now that we’ve exhausted all the bad things we can say about certain others, so we needed a new one?
I respectfully suggest that those of us who do not know any facts, but just second hand info, refrain from rehashing this topic. Feel free to patronize whomever you choose, or to not patronize those that you choose not to. But also live and let live. This board has been totally negative lately, and I hate it. What’s the point, just to see yourself in print?

[bucksnort]

Oh my GOD!! You guys that are saying that he just made a mistake and we should just let him be? He hired someone to KILL horses!! Some of them probably suffered! I would be totally embarrased with myself if I EVER stood up for someone in his position that did that. When you are a trainer you are supposed to take CARE of horses and not MURDER them. Those horses let hm get on their backs and they worked for him. What did they get in return??

Shame on you all for defending him and I not care if that is harsh and I do not care who dislikes me for saying so.

~Bucksnort~
“Work like you don’t need the money, love like you’ve never been hurt and dance like no one is watching.”

[MO1]

I agree with Dublin and Coreene.There is way too much negativism in our world, enough innocence dying. He has contributed to this. It’s a fact.