Weatherford, I “knew” it wasn’t an unfortunate “accident”. I recall drinking or drugs and it was NOT a sanitary as one of the other posters would like us to believe. Our shamateur vet was the one who SIGNED the “death certificate”(what do you call that for a horse?) for Streetwise aka Inisfree. A wholely gruesome and disgusting group of people who would participate in anything like this!
Betsy
Lead, follow, or get out of the way…
Suppose the ad in question had been placed by a trainer other than Paul Valliere? How would you react then?
reminds me that we shouldn’t be beating a dead horse. y’know?
on the other hand… it’s therapeutic to spew out all this venom! So keep spewing!
Why did I come back to this thread when all it does is make me want to dig my turbo charged broomstick out of the closet and act up?!?!?!
I, too, want to vote (are we voting??) to put the equine obits online. The last pages of the book “Hot Blood” list all of the offending/offensive persons involved in the insurance scam(s). Let’s post this list as well. Not looking for a witch hunt but I really don’t believe whe should forget and the fact these people are allowed to remain fixtures in the horse world sickens me.
There is no crying in baseball!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dry Clean Only:
How about we get back to talking about the real villians rather than complaining about the ‘lazy kids’ that you hired? 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You’re right, you’re right, sorry I got OT. I spend a lot of time with teenagers and I think our country is in great hands for the future. Just had to stick up for them, but you’re right, that’s another thread.
from The Equestrian Times:
"(New York, NY - June 1997)This is official notice of the following action taken by the Hearing Committee of the American Horse Shows Association following a meeting held on March 12, 1996, in the association’s New York City offices:
MR. PAUL VALLIERE, of North Smithfield, RI violated Rule III, Article 302.6 and Rule VII, Article 702(a), (d), and (f) of this association, in that he was convicted of having participated in a plan or conspiracy to commit acts of cruelty or abuse to a horse and the conduct underlying his conviction is deemed improper, unethical, dishonest, unsportsmanlike or intemperate, or prejudicial to the best interests of the Association. In considering an appropriate penalty for the violation by MR. VALLIERE, the committee members weighed in his favor that he had cooperated with the government; however, the panel also took into consideration that he hired a killer for the horse Roseau Platiere, owned by him, which was electrocuted as part of a scheme to defraud an insurance company, and that the evidence presented at the hearing established that death by electrocution causes pain to the horse. For his violation of the rules as charged, the committee determined pursuant to the provisions of Rule III, Article 302.6 and Rule VII, Article 703.1 (b), © and (f), that effective immediately and until further notice, MR. VALLIERE is hereby expelled from membership in the AHSA and denied all the privileges of membership including the ability to hold or exercise office in the association, attend or participate in association meetings, hold license(s) as an AHSA or FEI official, compete in international competitions or receive AHSA automatic insurance coverages or participate in AHSA group insurance programs and is found not in good standing and he and all horses owned, leased, or of any partnership, corporation or stable of his are found not in good standing and are suspended from competing or taking any part whatsoever in Recognized competitions and he is excluded from all competition grounds during Recognized competitions as an exhibitor, participant, or spectator. The panel members also directed that the Hearing Committee retains jurisdiction over this matter, and MR. VALLIERE may not apply to the Association for reinstatement any sooner than 10 years from the date he first became suspended by the Association on account of his indictment for the crime in question and then only based upon affirmative proof of total rehabilitation, including proof that he has taken steps to reform himself and has performed community service to benefit the welfare of horses. " (boldface added by me)
netmeg has it right - only given the trainer, it was probably more than 10%. Way more - think 6 figures… 
LCasty,
Thank you for stating that so well. Even though I don’t agree, and I could never, ever forgive or forget what PV has done, your post did give me pause, and I appreciate hearing another opinion that isn’t full of invective, as so many of the “pro” PV posts were.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by khobstetter:
One morning the grooms found the horse with a terrible belly ache and then he foundered SSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOO badly he ended up in a sling for weeks while the insurance company and GL fought about it. Marion DuPont was very involved with this horse and the situation at the time.
Eventually the insurance company agreed and the horse was put down just as the coffin bone came through the bottom of the foot. All of this is in print and there were numerous newspaper articles at the time.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
that is such a sad tale…and so unnessary
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yeehaw:
But I DO think its tacky and utterly tasteless to use a tragedy to promote your business. But then again, we knew he was tacky and tasteless long ago. Ah well… to each their own. If he burns in hell its nobodys fault but his own.
Absolutely, I concur totally - says it all! 
BarbB
charter member BEQS Clique & Invisible Poster Clique
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BronkBusterTX:
What about the people who advertise FOR HIM?
For instance Missy Clark has advertised “Special thanks to Paul Valliere”. Does that mean she puts money in his pocket?
… At least he is trying.
I don’t think any of us are going to EVER FORGET the harm that Paul, Barney, Dana, Tommy Burns, George Lindemann Jr. and others have done to our sport. However I think we should begin to forgive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
A) yes, I believe that that type of ad means that the advertiser has been supporting PV despite the fact that he is an acknowledged horse-murderer
B) the fact that PV has continued to teach, train and sell horses for high $s indicates to me that the suspension has not had the impact on his career that I would have preferred to have seen
C) trying to get reinstated with the Fed. is my read
D) I believe that some people have forgotten the evils of the past or were never aware of them when they were first brought to light
E) I am grateful for the knowledge and insight that this bb has afforded me
F) we all must decide for ourselves how we can respond to such actions - and personally, I WILL NOT - EVER - attend any seminar, clinic, etc that may put money in the wallets of anyone that I have knowledge of committing such deeds
you may say that I am naive and I will accept that - but I know many equine professionals that are also HORSEMEN - so I know that all do not share the values shown by the types that we speak of in this thread - I will support the HORSEMEN and I will boycott the bad
you know i read the last chronicle and the add was still in …so if you take lessons its your …choise… me no way…
Scotchie… please check the BB rules.
For our purposes, the only “facts” that can be posted are items that have appeared in print or charges that have been filed in a court of law. You’re welcome to your opinion, but we can’t allow posters to make allegations about illegal or unethical activities without substantiation, so I’ve edited your post.
Really, folks… I think all sides of this topic have been debated pretty thoroughly. I haven’t seen a new thought posted in at least 10 pages.
the reason he posted that ad was not to increase his proceeds- it was because he knows his review is coming up. Now we all know how charitable he is.
-gag-
Yeehaw- Formerly RF
COTH BB Resident Cowgirl
"She’s gone country… look at them boots, shes gone country… back to her roots, shes gone country, a new kind of suit… SHES GONE COUNTRY!! HERE SHE COMES!!! 
More and more sand.
“that others were under suspicion (that is, they had hired Tommy Burns) for previous killings, but went unpunished due to the statute of limitations.”
if I could find the Sandman, I’d ask him how much it would cost me for him to give me a list…
Maybe it should be called the Streetwise thread 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Goodmudder:
Do you all not have anything better to do? I am neither defending nor attacking this man - it’s over, it’s done with, it’s been dealt with. Give it a rest. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually- right now I have nothing better to do. And beating the dead horse is a hobby of mine. 
Besides- its an important issue that should be discussed as long as people are willing to discuss it.
There are other people out there doing the same thing they did but they arent getting caught. Maybe the discussion will provide an eye opener for someone who otherwise wouldnt notice it happening around them. Have you ever thought about that?
and Kryswyn, excellent post.
If I thought that they would get a good education in Horsemanship. But also I would be there, there would be grooms and other parents, the said trainer has a known background, forewarned is forearmed.
But it is not quite the same thing is it? Not that one is worse than the other, just different.
This is a quote from HAC-
From what I understand a convicted child molestor has gotten back into training after he served his time in jail, Care to send any kids to Florida with him?
PORTIA- You are an attorney. What kind of sentence is typical for a person convicted on several counts of child molestation? What is the usual amount of time served? And is that person not supposed to be able to try to return to something of a normal life?
I DID contact Ken Englade who said he did not put the other names in his book for legal reasons. He said someone at the Chicago Sun Times might still have that information.
He also said (as I contacted him in hopes he would be interested in investigating some other nefarious activities), " Why is it I am not surprised…" (to hear these things are still happening…) That would be a funny comment, if it weren’t so darned true.
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