For me, the dog would not run free until the recall is proofed. Or, put in a fenced area for the dog.
It sounds like itās being used as a cost saving measure, in order for the dog to go off-leash sooner?
Total aside - could horses be trained on an invisible fence, do you think? Or is their flight instinct too strong? Iād guess some could, and some are probably unable to grasp it well.
I suppose you could be right, but Iām happy as she is able to go along free on the farm as we do not have fencing here. She seems to be happy as well and now has a much better recall. It will be interesting in the spring once the killdeer come back. But I would recommend a collar to others if they work with a trainer. *edited to add - not all dogs though. My parents have a very sensitive mini aussie that canāt go off leash as he just runs away. Heās terrified of loud sounds and kids and is super reactive. An e collar would send him through the roof Iām sure and I would never suggest one for dogs like this.
The invisible fence was more $ of course, but had the same concept and idea behind it. It was just a bonus that you didnāt need a controller or have to be watching her all the time, which really isnt an issue as sheās always with me when Iām outside, even when Iām riding.
*if the collar didnāt work, the invisable fencing was next on my list. I asked the company to call me back after a month with use of the collar as I did make the fencing appt, I just postponed it. But I was happy with the way the collar was going, they called me back as a follow up and I cancelled the fencing appt.
Flight animals are quite a bit different so I wouldnt think a collar would work of course, but my electric fence sure works for them to keep them off my oak fencing
My Fjord says a definite no to this- I retrieved her this morning from carefully working her way through the electric fence to get at the worldās tiniest bit of grass. My other 4 wonāt go near the electric fencing. Fjord on the other hand says green grass- totally worth being shocked (and hence why my pasture must be double fencedā¦sigh)
Must be a Fjord thing. I remember when mine was climbing the fence into the sheep pasture (better grass). My DH got mad at him and went out and bought the most powerful charger he could find. It read 17,000 volts on the meter. It was supposed to stop bear. We set it and turned out the Fjording. We watched as he walked up to it. He stuck his head under it, and slowly climber under. You could hear it snapping as it crossed his backā¦ The ground was wet so we knew it was making good contact. The rest of the horses ran for the hills from the sound of the snapping, but he slowly walked under it into the next pasture. Not a care in the world.
Saw the vid.
The leaders caused the wreck. In an 8 this pair is least controlled by the driver - they refer to them as āheadlightsā = your highest stepping horses.
The middle - Swing - teams do the directions, Wheelers - nearest the driver - supply the power.
Be grateful these were Drafts, not lighter horses.
Remember that vid of the Saddlebreds at Springfield. Single horse to bike, one lost the driver & 4 more joined the chaos? 
Even the Swing Clyde that got thrown to the ground waited for handlers to free him.
Yes, the asst driver put his jacket over horseās head & sat on his neck, but that horse never struggled.
Nor did the other 7 involved in the tangle of harness & hitch.
nothing. the hunt was quit for the day. in case you didnāt know, when training young dogs, the birds are set loose and not shot when the dog breaks the point, so that is the āpunishmentā - rather effective - the dogs quickly learn the game. Hold the point- get the fun of retrieving the bird.
Not sure why I keep respondingā¦ because clearly I train my animals vindictively when they make a mistakeā¦ 
Cattle have been trained to invisible boundaries with electric collars, regulated thru a GPS program, some off a satellite.
Here is a commercial system about to be sold now:
No way! Thatās how to train a puppy? Itās been so long since Iāve done thatā¦
Really interesting. The GPS control is brilliant.
yepā¦ thatās why we now have a stable pigeon population here 
I assume you are joking that you didnāt knowā¦ cuz you and I both know that painful punishment is not the way to train and have a happy dogā¦ they donāt need it.
The pigeons are truly annoying thoughā¦
My horse has literally no tail due to breed characteristics and she seems to do just fine. Like others mentioned I wouldnāt do it intentionally to any other horses though. I like a horse with a tail.
We have currently have a Aussie with a tail nub and she is so expressive with it. I have no issues with tail docking in dogs as it is done so young they really arenāt missing anything. We had a Lab/ Rott mix who was docked also and her tail-less-ness was never an issue either ( for me or her).
I donāt like doing anything to their ears .
Modern e-collars 100% have the ātap on the shoulderā setting. Hell, mine has a buzz setting that totally goes through the beagleās ānose brainā where my voice canāt penetrate.
And yes, Iām the type who strapped that darn collar onto my arm and hit myself with every level. 10 HURT but 5 was like licking a battery. Levels 1 & 2 on mine, I canāt feel and thatās on my bare skin.
I get the feeling that you never actually looked about at what are available with e-collars now. Long gone are the days of āthree settings, all will make 'em yelpā tools.
Vibrate or beep is not a problem with me.
Shocking a dog is. If it were just a ātap on the shoulderā why wouldnāt they make these things with only the vibrate feature? Why put the shock feature in at all? Hmmmā¦ 
So how do you handle a situation that is an emergency and your dog doesnāt recall? Have you never had a situation like this? What do you do when the stimulus to ignore you is greater than whatever you are offering?
E.g. - skunk, rattlesnake, other dangerous situation (rabid animal, unknown person)?
I encountered two people walking 4 dogs and pushing a double stroller with two toddlers the other day. On a farm road in the middle of nowhere, that borders my property. Not really something I have ever āproofedā recall. My dogs all know the command, and all 3 of them ignored me.
What would you do?
For the same reason that bit makers donāt just make snaffles. Different animal personalities need different tools.
Yes, you can get e-collars that only buzz. And thatās not enough to break some dogās concentration, if thatās how youāre using it. Doesnāt mean youāre blasting the dogs on the highest setting just because you have it available.
On the āpunishmentā side of e-collar training, I look at it as similar to using a crop to install forward. You ask for the trot with your seat, your horse blows you off ā¦ you have two choices. Ask again, with emphasis from the crop, then go back to the quiet ask OR escalate your asks until you get a forward response, reward the response.
Some people use the first, some the second but in my experience that second one rarely produces a horse that moves well off the seat. Like it or not, we all offer āpunishmentsā when training our animals. For some sensitive dogs, it can be as simple as turning your back on them and refusing to engage. Others are the bull/china shop personalities and giving them a correction that they donāt blow off can be a finess game.
They donāt know the command if they didnāt listen. Our dogs point skunks (and did, and got sprayed on our last long distance hunting trip - that was fun lol), not chase them. We often donāt know what theyāre pointing until youāre 3 feet away from the thing. They point coyotes. They point literally everything, they arenāt going to run in and grab it. In the case of them being pursued by something, if weāre hunting it gets shot. At home, we would recall them, though Iām sure with something on their ass they might be too nervous to outrun it, looking back at it wondering why theyāre being chased etc. A shock collar would change nothing in that scenario.
Think of all the other high drive sports with dogs used. Why, if this is such an effective tool, are police K9s not wearing them all the time? Agility dogs? Dock diving dogs? Lure coursing dogs?
Why are guys using a tool they canāt use in competitions? You can see a force retrieved dog a mile off. You can see a collar trained dog a mile off.
And just in general - why, if itās so effective and humane, do we not use this as a training aid on horses? Cats? Lions and tigers used for outreach? Falcons? Why is it just - dogs - that need this tool?
ā¦ that can be accomplished using a check cord or some other media that doesnāt cause actual physical pain.
If people are causing pain every time they use a crop, Iād like to have a chat with them about appropriate usage. That popper is there for a reason - to make noise. Anyone seen in competition using a crop in a way that is designed to be painful (ie, overhand) is penalized.
But this is normal in dog training. Pain is apparently OK, as long as it gets everyone to their ālets leave the dogs offleashā goal, sooner. Or for the hunters, as long as it gets them to a competition sooner.
And again - if a bit is designed to cause pain I would hope no one would use itā¦
That said, look at all the people singing the accolades of that heinous pletcher bit with a razor thin surface area, calling it a āwonder bitā. Yeah, wonder is right, wonder why it worksā¦ duh. Look at the thing.
That is not the definition of āknowing the command.ā
They know what it means. They recall in many places, all the time, often very enthusiastically, and they get rewarded many times with verbal reward and treats. But, sometimes they choose not to recall. Thatās not a matter of understanding, thatās a matter of reward/consequence.
We all know how hunting dogs work, and that you may not be able to see them. Thatās not what Iām talking about. I walk 3 dogs off lead at the same time, every day. We are not āhuntingā in an organized sense. They are often hunting. Or just running and sniffing.
Iām not talking about competition; so stop bringing this back to your dogs and your experiences with shitty hunting dog trainers.
So youāre saying that youāve never had your dog blow off a command? Thatās almost impossible to believe.
Of course they have.
Theyāre dogs, theyāre entitled to make mistakes without getting shocked.
Animals we chose to partner with are still animals, and will still make mistakes. If someone needs more than a vibrate setting to remind their dog of a command in the case of being blown off, they do NOT know the command well enough to be off leash. What if he blows off the shock setting? You crank it up?
You mentioned how we train horses versus dogs - I donāt understand the disconnect between training dogs and horses. A horse biffs a transition, for example, you just repeat it until it improves. A dog biffs a command and they get shocked. A horse gets a little squirrely, you get it back under control and move on. A dog gets shocked for a similar mistake.
Bizarre.
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