That bolded is the sticky point, no, a shock doesnāt has to hurt, some times you get shocked on a hot fence and barely feel it, others it knocks you down.
Ever use a TENS device for your back?
It shocks you intermittently, you feel it but it doesnāt really hurt.
E-collars properly used, as per those that have studied them and used them, can be set at any level, donāt forget that.
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Again - it would not work if it didnāt hurt. These dogs are VERY driven. If a shout doesnāt work, then a ātap on the shoulderā wonāt either. Calling it āstimulationā or a ātapā is easy when the dog canāt talk, or tell you to take the thing off.
Every time Iāve touched an electric fence, it hurts. I try my best to not touch them, ever. I would feel pretty awful having one strapped around my neck, or on my belly. TENS machines hurt, too - maybe not you, but they do me.
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For hunting dogs - How many of these people force break their dogs? What makes you think they give a damn about causing pain on a shock collar when they have no problem with the force breaking process? Are we going to pretend that force breaking isnāt painful, too?
In what way?
You can train a horse in many similar ways, but obviously training under saddle it isnāt very easy to train using R+. But my point is exactly that - there is nothing wrong with R- for horses OR for dogs.
As for docking - I agree that if chopping off a part of a kid is allowable, we shouldnāt draw the line on dog tails.
So, no, I am not an dog training expert. I have watched several times NAVHDA dog training sessions - I have witnessed some relatively harsh snaps w/ check cords. I have not seen shock collars used but Iāve only watched puppy training (<15 months).
We have a very soft dog. He does have a e-collar he wears when he decides he knows better than his āshooterā - the one who shoots the birds for him; yes, he gets annoyed when there are too many hens or his shooter misses. he may have been āshockedā on the mild setting once or twice; he usually getās beeped. He is a super-smart dog.
He was not trained harshly - ever - a loud voice is harsh to him. I only bring this up because a certain poster talks like hunters are out there shocking the crap out of their dogs. Well, we have cows. And therefore we have cow fencing. One time out doing a training session, the dog ran into the cow fence. He howled and bolted back to the house. DH found him shivering by the back door of the house. He would not go back to that field for a couple of MONTHS. IF he was shocked for training, there is NO WAY heād be the absolutely die-hard, outstanding hunter that he is. he would have been broken - straight up.
Not all of them. But thereās a pretty high percentage. Especially those who have some desire to train on a time-frame. This can be either pros or ammys.
It sounds like you donāt over use yours. It also sounds like your dog isnāt solid on the whoa command. They all get pissed when thereās too many hens or the birds are running or the shooter missed for the nth time. Theyāre dogs, not robots. I donāt mind seeing their frustration at those times - it honestly makes me laugh. An extra āwhoaā is all thatās needed in those situationsā¦ if your dog doesnāt respect whoa then thereās other issues there.
What is your hang up with circumcision? Because people are allowed to maim their kids, we should also be allowed to maim dogs? Should we stop them both, absolutely. But saying because one exists there is no point in trying to eradicate the other practice is simply ridiculous.
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Itās not that I want to justify circumcision. Iām simply calling out hypocrisy if we are outraged about dog tails but not baby penises.
Maybe a less controversial issue is ear piercing a baby. If thatās ok but not tail docking, why?
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Who here is saying either of those are okay?
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Oh, yes, I forgot those collars also have a beep to get the dogās attention or break his single minded overdrive they fall into at times.
Maybe that is what our herding friend used, whatever he used, the dog didnāt seem to be bothered at all, just regained focus on working, not just standing there staring if he had been whistling to move on to the stock, or turn right, one example.
There is always so much more to what we donāt quite know in detail, is it.
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Iāve never seen a thread about how circumcision should be banned because itās cruel, and only for cosmetic or traditional reasons. Itās the exact argument being made here about dogs, with lots of support. And, my guess is, support from people who elected to have their own children circumcised, although no one has actually said so.
The issue about docking a horseās tail is similar. I donāt know how likely it is that a horse would suffer a serious tail injury- but that has to be considered. Which is worseā¦and how likely?
reallyā¦ you have no idea about my dog. or the hunters DH hunts and trains dogs with. He didnāt go chasing after flying birds. There are more than one way for a dog to show his annoyance. A look will do. may be you didnāt know that.
But thanks SO MUCH for your expert advice.
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Are youā¦ are you saying that you shocked your dog because he gave you an annoyed look?
Can you explain to me how your dog showed so much annoyance at an event that was supposed to be fun for him, that you felt the need to shock him to make him stop?
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This time itās over the Budweiser Clydeās docked tails
just this last Sunday one of the Budweiser hitches got tangled up at the San Antonio Stock Show, one horse fell to the ground which took about ten minutes to untangle
of course PETA responded
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Lord have mercy, that was quite the wreck. Hope the horse is ok, he really did struggle to get his hind end back underneath him for several tries.
I can not tell but it is possible some of the harness was under his feet, once they got all of the harness off he was able to stand and did not appear to have any problems walking off
They were careful to remove the harness which I do not blame them as one really does not want to get the knife out to starting cutting the harness away
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Maybe because this isnāt a parenting forum?
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OMG no. Quit conflating what people say, please. An annoyed look is communication, not a reason for punishment. I never ever said he was shocked or punished for being annoyed.
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And - our dogs have proven that it is NOT NECESSARY in creating finished hunting dogs. So anyone using one on a dog <2 years old is interested in one thing - speed. The horse world (generally) knows how long training takes. The dog world is racing to see who can nab āyoungest master hunter titleā, and zapping dogs for making mistakes on birds.
I havenāt read any thing after this one, but I use an ecollar on my dog and she is under 2 years. Its not used to speed things up, but to save her life. It has worked amazing for her and has not only saved her life (from running after birds to and on the road) , it has saved me thousands of dollars on buying an invisible fence, as I live on a farm with 600ft footage along a very, very busy road. I was quoted over $3000 for just a loop of invisible fence but spoke with a dog trainer and decided on a decent $300 unit when she was 7 months old, and it has worked wonders when she is in mid chase. I donāt really use it for anything else (though had it on her while she was in heat the other month and we have a very active coyote population, and I have no idea if she would chase one if she saw one) and she can be a dog and chase as many things as she would like along the back with no worries.
In my case, I also 95% of the time just use the vibrate to break her concentration (and yes, I tried all settings on my wrist before I even put it on my dog. This collar has 100 settings so a very wide range and a vibrate button as well). We trained on a leash in the house for a week so she understood the concept and then worked on it outside in a quiet area, then in busy areas.
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Then when DID you use it? Itās not my fault you arenāt being clear.
