please.explain this to me

[JWB]

Now if you’re talking about a marketing perspective (rather than a breeding perspective), I can understand your frustration. That said, I can also understand why buyers might get frustrated trying to find a good sport prospect.

As I said in my previous post, I was hoping to find an appendix QH (or some sort of TB/stock horse cross) for my next horse. From a shopping perspective, if I went to look at 10 holsteiners, most of them would be 16-17 hands and built for jumping.

I looked at five quarter horse crosses (all described as sport horse prospects), I got 14-17 hands body types all across the board. To a lesser degree there is the same issue with TB shopping, but I eventually found a TB of a suitable type.

Consistency is what the WBs have going for them. They may not always produce the best horses, but you have a “pretty good idea” of what one will look like. Sure, I think there could be thoroughbreds or quarter horses that are on par with them, but they are going to have to work much harder to prove themselves. Their breeders are going to have to campaign much more and drive a much bigger PR campaign to let people know that their Quarter Horses and TBs are a consistent type.

Is it fair? I don’t know. It’s just what comes with being associated with a registry that registers somewhere between 70,000-140,000 foals a year. The market is pretty saturated and you’re going to need to show buyers that YOUR Quarter Horse is different and better.

[SouthernYankee]

[QUOTE=Blume Farm;7207187]
The following is just my (unsolicited) advice…If you are breeding athletic, sporty Appendix horses that succeed in dressage then make that your goal and marketing. IMO, don’t compare your horses to WBs. Make your breeding goal to be the best sport-type Appendix breeder out there. Lynn Palm did not try to compare Rugged Lark to a warmblood. She made Rugged Lark the best sport-type QH out there…and gleaned all the success and recognition that came along with it (or I guess, better put, his breeder did)! I would guess that his foals sell for as much money as any WB foal…QH blood and all. Why? Because he has an extensive history of success, as do his offspring. Folks know what they are buying.[/QUOTE]

Which is why I chose to breed my WB mare to a QH son of Rugged Lark. (Carol Harris owned Rugged Lark and now owns the stallion my filly is by) I wanted to produce an Amie friendly all around athletic baby for me. Which I believe I have. She won’t have papers, but I wasn’t breeding for resale. Granted I did not want a Rolex horse but rather a training level packer…

Horses come in all shapes, sizes, and colors in all breeds so I doubt you are honestly running into a breed prejudice. Sometimes it’s pretty difficult to tell exactly what a horse is based solely on looks… I had an OTTB that could have passed as a qh or a wb depending on the crowd I was riding with. I would bet most people are curious about your stallion because he is a stallion. They may have a mare they might be considering breeding…

[stoicfish]

At the Beijing Olympics, a Canadian commentator who is very well know, made the statement (live) that Trakheners were just not capable of doing upper level dressage. Ok.
Point is, there is breed prejudice amongst the warmbloods. Some love the German horses, some the Dutch, some the Swedish and some don’t like the local registries like Canadian Warmblood. There will always be people with preferences. I wouldn’t worry too much about it. If you concentrate on all that stuff too much it becomes an excuse. Just go out and prove you got a quality horse. People will always pay for a horse that wins and does well.

[D_BaldStockings]

"Yet despite our success he doesn’t get his recognition because he is viewed as less of a horse because he isn’t a WB. They accept TB, Arabs, and others are considered sport horses so what makes it so much better that the Americans didn’t create it ? So frustrating ! I’d like for my foals to be eligible for young horse and things but they can’t no matter how nice because they aren’t warmbloods. Why does the attitude prevail ? "

The FEI young horse Championships are actually run by the WBFSH, for its member registries.
http://www.wbfsh.org/GB/WBFSH.aspx
Member registries pay to join and meet other criteria.

If your breed registry is not a member, your horse cannot participate in their competitions or be listed in their rankings.

There is nothing to keep you from showing Open at the highest levels your horse(s) can attain.

Their attainments will not be catalogued in the FEI young horse or other rankings of this organization.

You might be able to enter your horses or their offspring in one of the ‘lesser books’ of a member registry - and then your horse’s accomplishments will accrue to that registry’s statistics.

Since USEF is woeful at recordkeeping and horse recording, it is no wonder there is no comparable ‘proving ground and recognition’ for non-WB horses of training and ability.

Keep your own records, all of them. keep all of your scores along with scores of the other competitors and feel free to advertise your horse as getting better scores than X, Y, and Z famous horses when it happens.
Do the same for any offspring.

Performance sells. Proven performance sells for a better price.

Don’t apologize for not being able to be in their club it has no impact on the athleticism or trainability of your horses, nor on their admission to OPEN competition.
They have a league of their own; not the only league.

[out_west]

fire_911medic I suggest you actually go online and READ the requirements for the Markel Young Horse program. For our national young horse finals the horse must have papers from a WBFSH registry or a national registry and they specifically include Jockey Club and AQHA. It does NOT have to be a WB. You are free to ride in the qualifiers, and if you qualify go to the National Finals.

[D_BaldStockings]

[QUOTE=out west;7213266]
fire_911medic I suggest you actually go online and READ the requirements for the Markel Young Horse program. For our national young horse finals the horse must have papers from a WBFSH registry or a national registry and they specifically include Jockey Club and AQHA. It does NOT have to be a WB. You are free to ride in the qualifiers, and if you qualify go to the National Finals.[/QUOTE]

True. The Markel program is open to registered horses, not only WB.

But that still will not get into the WBFSH statistics even if the score was higher than any other. Nor can they compete at the FEI championships in Europe even if they were highest placed at Markel Champs.
And USEF is not a marketing organization for US horses as WBFSH is for it’s member registries.

and Note:
"…10. MARKEL/USEF YOUNG HORSE DRESSAGE SHORT LIST:
The Markel/USEF Young Horse Dressage Short List is the list used to determine invitations for the FEI World Breeding Championships to be held August XX-XX, 2014 in Verden, Germany. The ‘Short List’ is a separate ranking list than those ranking lists used to determine invitations to the National Championships.
However, horses which are named to the short list may be eligible for an automatic invitation to the 2014 Markel/USEF Young Horse Dressage Championships (pending filing of an Application of Intent). These automatic invitations to the National Championships for Short-Listed horses will only be granted for a maximum of the top five (5) ranked horses in each age division (five- and six-year-olds).
The Markel/USEF Young Horse Dressage Short List is determined by scores earned in the designated Markel/USEF Selection Events for the FEI World Breeding Dressage Championships.
…
V. INVITATION TO THE CHAMPIONSHIPS:

1. All horses for which an Application of Intent has been submitted as outlined above (see “Application” I.1) and have qualified by a method outlined above (see “Qualifying Procedure”) will be ranked according to scores and be accepted up to the number of entries available, not to exceed 15. The number of entries accepted will be limited to fifteen (15) horse/rider combinations per age division (4-, 5-, and 6-year-old). For the five- and six-year-old divisions, if an Application of Intent has been received by the USEF Dressage Department in due time as per # IV.9 above, Short-Listed horses as per IV.9 above will be awarded automatic invitations to the Championships. …"

One is competing for one of 10 spots (of 15) since 5 are automatic award to Short-list horses with letter of intent which isn’t applicable to non-WB horses.

And no discounts just because you aren’t allowed to go to the European competition.

-Why I recommend keeping your own statistics to verify and compare - no one else will do so.

[siegi_b]

If quarterhorses were consistently qualifying for, then placing or maybe even winning the Markel Championships for young horses, I think you would definitely see things change. Right now this argument sounds a little like "if a frog had wings… "

[_Tradewind]

[QUOTE=Blume Farm;7207187]
It seems like there are two issues that are being discussed. The first is breed bias at dressage shows. In my experience I have not seen this…and as I said before I see many, many competitors on many, many different breeds that are obviously not WBs and could not be mistaken as one. If they ride a correct test and have good basic gaits they do well. I have experienced this both as a competitor with my own pony and as a scribe. That in no way means breed bias might not happen with certain judges, I just have not experienced this. It is a shame that it has happened for some of you guys as I feel the sport should be accessible to AAs on any horse. Maybe you can pay attention to what judges appear to be more fair in your opinion and try to ride in front of them.

The second issue is regarding acceptance of QHs and Appendix horses into WB registries. The Warmblood is a breed, not just a registry. It is a breed with over a hundred years of selective breeding through genetics to develop the athletic abilities and phenotype that it has today. Some of those WB breed registries are “closed” such as the Trakehner and Holsteiner, while others are “open” to allow the genetics of all the WBs as well as a select few Tbs and Arabs/ AA. Anyone that really focuses on breeding WBs doesn’t just pick a stallion based on how he looks…there is analyzation of blood lines, known “nicks”, understanding of what a particular pedigree might bring to the mix, etc. It is an art, it is a science. And it is a lifetime of studying WB bloodlines and past known breeding successes. That is why the argument is made that in Europe families that have generations of knowledge passed down to each other can be so useful. That is why some registries offer courses to breeders to even begin to learn these “secrets”. It is also what makes selling foals at a better price possible (although most breeders will argue that they ever make any $$ breeding WBs:(). You can market a foal by saying “this filly is by stallion A, out a mare by Stallion B, out of a mare by stallion C”. Obviously there is always a gamble, but a buyer can say “oh I like stallion A, he has crossed well with stallion B, and stallion C tends to add a good mind. Stallion B has produced 10 GP horses, Stallion C has produced 10 FEI horses”.

The following is just my (unsolicited) advice…If you are breeding athletic, sporty Appendix horses that succeed in dressage then make that your goal and marketing. IMO, don’t compare your horses to WBs. Make your breeding goal to be the best sport-type Appendix breeder out there. Lynn Palm did not try to compare Rugged Lark to a warmblood. She made Rugged Lark the best sport-type QH out there…and gleaned all the success and recognition that came along with it (or I guess, better put, his breeder did)! I would guess that his foals sell for as much money as any WB foal…QH blood and all. Why? Because he has an extensive history of success, as do his offspring. Folks know what they are buying.

Maybe I live with rose colored glasses, but I believe if you are breeding successful AA friendly dressage horses that continue to succeed in competitions your breeding program will succeed. With or without WB papers/ registration. But with an extensive history of success under your belt (or under your stallions:)) you will have something to market that buyers will know what they are getting. Until then, keep competing (maybe under judges you prefer) and keep racking up as many awards as possible with your stallion.[/QUOTE]

This is a great post, Blume Farm. If the horse moves well and goes well in competition it can and should be scored well, regardless of its breeding. I have an Irish Sporthorse who is half Paint that has been cleaning up in (eventing) dressage all year, beating more impressively bred horses. He moves well and goes very consistently so he is rewarded for it.

However, if you’re wondering why people are not rushing out to buy or breed Quarter Horses for the Olympic disciplines and are biased against purchasing one as a prospect for these disciplines, the simple fact of the matter is that they are not bred to do the job. As others have said, when the warmblood breeds/registries have been selectively breeding for sport for over a hundred years, you can’t complain that a QH or TB bred for as many generations to perform a very different job is not seen as being on par with the warmbloods in their respective disciplines. It isn’t about snobbery, it’s about a horse being more suitable for a particular job because it has been carefully bred to do that job. If you happen to have a fantastic moving Quarter Horse that excels in dressage, good for you; however, because QHs are not bred to do dressage, this is not going to be the norm and one cannot expect it to be so. (I’m not knocking QHs or Appendixes, btw - my first Intermediate level event horse was an Appendix so I do have a lot of respect for this cross.)

If you choose to breed QHs for dressage, that is your prerogative. If you are careful and smart about your breeding decisions, you will likely (and have, from the sounds of it), produce some nice horses. Obviously there are characteristics of the QH that you appreciate enough to incorporate them into your breeding program. However, you will be fighting an uphill battle if you are trying to compete with those who are breeding horses with European sport-based pedigrees. If you breed several to many generations of QH crosses, selectively choosing the criteria you want, you will likely start to produce the type of horse that you want. Yet, you have to understand that your starting point is further behind those breeders who start with well-bred German/Dutch/Swedish mares that already have the performance behind their pedigrees.

[D_BaldStockings]

[QUOTE=Tradewind;7214234]
This is a great post, Blume Farm. If the horse moves well and goes well in competition it can and should be scored well, regardless of its breeding. I have an Irish Sporthorse who is half Paint that has been cleaning up in (eventing) dressage all year, beating more impressively bred horses. He moves well and goes very consistently so he is rewarded for it.

However, if you’re wondering why people are not rushing out to buy or breed Quarter Horses for the Olympic disciplines and are biased against purchasing one as a prospect for these disciplines, the simple fact of the matter is that they are not bred to do the job. As others have said, when the warmblood breeds/registries have been selectively breeding for sport for over a hundred years, you can’t complain that a QH or TB bred for as many generations to perform a very different job is not seen as being on par with the warmbloods in their respective disciplines. It isn’t about snobbery, it’s about a horse being more suitable for a particular job because it has been carefully bred to do that job. If you happen to have a fantastic moving Quarter Horse that excels in dressage, good for you; however, because QHs are not bred to do dressage, this is not going to be the norm and one cannot expect it to be so. (I’m not knocking QHs or Appendixes, btw - my first Intermediate level event horse was an Appendix so I do have a lot of respect for this cross.)

If you choose to breed QHs for dressage, that is your prerogative. If you are careful and smart about your breeding decisions, you will likely (and have, from the sounds of it), produce some nice horses. Obviously there are characteristics of the QH that you appreciate enough to incorporate them into your breeding program. However, you will be fighting an uphill battle if you are trying to compete with those who are breeding horses with European sport-based pedigrees. If you breed several to many generations of QH crosses, selectively choosing the criteria you want, you will likely start to produce the type of horse that you want. Yet, you have to understand that your starting point is further behind those breeders who start with well-bred German/Dutch/Swedish mares that already have the performance behind their pedigrees.[/QUOTE]

Except that most WB in 1913 were Harness bred and/or heavy cavalry + farm work stock and it took generations of outcrossing to TB and lighter cavalry stock to achieve the pinnacle they currently occupy -since the 1970’s about. Even today the percentage of close TB (within 4-5 generations) is very high.

On the other hand, QH were ranch and riding stock and racing stock. If your horses can do the performance, don’t fret about the ‘stigma’ of riding horse breeding; it isn’t bad.

[Dressagelvr]

Actually, European WB breeders have had carriage/work lines and riding lines since the late 1700s. Their focus on differentiating dressage and jumping lines began in the 1950s, I believe.

Also, the TBs used in the WB lines weren’t American TBs, they were English, etc.

It is all of these years that sets them apart, along w/their rigorous standards. AQHA will let anything w/4 legs stand as a stallion.

There will always be individuals within other breeds who can compete w/the WBs in the upper levels of dressage and show jumping, but until other breeds start purpose breeding for those specific disciplines…and do it very selectively for generations, they will remain European bloodline dominated sports, even if the WBs happen to be bred outside of Europe.

[fire_911medic]

I take into account the comments regarding being “bred for the job”. His mother was a barrel bred horse thoroughly (siblings consistently win on the upper barrel racing circuit). The made hated it and adored dressage. She eventer through prelim (as far as I cared to go - she had no reasons not to go higher) and went through PSG dressage. Always scoring well consistently in top 3 with scores in the upper 60’s to 70’s against WB. It was obvious she was a QH and not “built to do the job”. She should have never been able to do what she did. I didn’t breed her because she was a made or I liked her. I bred her because she proved herself a requirement for me. Was very conscious of her faults and took them into account when looking at a stallion to breed to. There is the american appendix horse association which has its own award program and markets the stallions which I am pursuing to get him more recognition. I am not jaded into the I want in the WB club. My frustration lies in the fact I can have a going third level horse who is quality and someone else have a wb and simply because he is a wb they will go with him when the other horse is unproven. The frustration is people think they need a wb to win when in fact any quality horse would do. Also for most people a qh/tb mix is more amateur friendly and a more comfortable ride. Spent a year in Canada riding for a Hanoverian breeder and competing. He loved my OTTB. He asked me frequently to trade so he had a more amateur friendly horse to sell. I didn’t think the TB was really anything special - I considered him average but you couldn’t beat his attitude. Was happy to do whatever you asked. He was okay at shows was respectable but not a star by any means but consistent. He repeatedly wanted to trade for a nice bit unproven hano made. She was nice but not consistent enough. I used the TB for lessons. He said " why won’t you trade for a registered nice hanoverian . If you put time on her you could win. Why do you want a TB and not a WB ? You can’t win on a TB !" He didn’t undsrstand why I wanted that horse. He was something anyone could ride. I sold him immediately after getting home for a very nice price and he is consistently placing locally with an amateur rider. I just find tb and tb crosses to be more user friendly. WB tend to be very large and have bigger gaits. People who are smaller and have had prior injuries find them difficult to ride. That is many of my clients. People who bought big fancy WB and found out they were uncomfortable on them due to size as they were a smaller rider or gait due to previous injury. Truth be told the majority of breeders are looking to produce horses for the amateur rider that will likely not exceed fourth level. If you can produce rideable user friendly horses to get someone there you will do well as a breeder. Sure some will go higher but the majority just make it to there. I produce quality user friendly horses that just about anyone can ride and be successful at those levels. I do well. Some comments have been useful and kind as to those thank you - even if your preference is WB. I understand if you breed it there is a loyalty there for obvious reasons. Some comments have only reinforced the general attitude I am referring to. To those people you need to have a realization most of your horses are for mid level amateurs not Olympians. On that note, I exit as I don’t cars to induce a further basically pissing match.

[JackieBlue]

OP, will you not post pics or video of The Man in Question?

[siegi_b]

Dear Fire-medic, I have received your PM and just finished reading your last post… For somebody who by her own admission doesn’t breed or has much experience with warmbloods, their bloodlines and what they stand for, you seem to have some very strong opinions regarding folks that do have exactly that experience. As I mentioned earlier, it is much easier to convince folks that you have a contribution to make by demonstrating what it is. So far all I’ve read is that YOU think your stallion and your breeding program are so good that the warmblood breeders should line up to breed their best mares to your horse. You haven’t come up with your horse’s competition record nor a video or pictures to give folks an idea of what you’re talking about. So to me you sound just like a lot of folks who just love their horses, except then you take it a step further and demand that everybody else should, too… :yes::yes:

[mbm]

I think that the OP might want to turn her gaze to herself and see that she is doing to WBs what she thinks others are doing to her.

Look - not everyone wants to own and ride a WB just like not everyone wants to own and ride a QH. Why not just refocus your energies on how to make your horses the best they can be and stop worrying about others ?

i am a learner “breeder” and this was my first year of producing offspring… I bred my lovely WB mare to a pony - and i did it for a reason and got what i was hoping to achieve - but what i got will NOT be a WB with WB papers… will i whine that they are excluding me? no. She got put in the pony book even tho she will most likely be over pony height. And that is fine. that is what i knew would happen based on the rules.

So my advice to you is if you want to breed WBs - then breed them. If you want to breed QHs - breed them… if you want to breed crosses - breed them! But realize that you will need to fit into whatever organization is already existing and if it matters to you you should of done your research before breeding to figure out where your offspring will go.

Then just ride and train and do the best you can and let the chips fall where they may - if your stock and riding is superior you will get noticed.

However you will NEVER get someone who is looking to produce a warmblood to breed to your stallion. you just wont. You might get folks looking for a certain aspect - be it ridability etc - but you will NOT find folks looking to your guy if their goal is to produce warmbloods - why? because they will choose warmblood stallions.

[Crockpot]

I take into account the comments regarding being “bred for the job”. His mother was a barrel bred horse thoroughly (siblings consistently win on the upper barrel racing circuit). The made hated it and adored dressage. She eventer through prelim (as far as I cared to go - she had no reasons not to go higher) and went through PSG dressage. Always scoring well consistently in top 3 with scores in the upper 60’s to 70’s against WB. It was obvious she was a QH and not “built to do the job”. She should have never been able to do what she did. I didn’t breed her because she was a made or I liked her. I bred her because she proved herself a requirement for me. Was very conscious of her faults and took them into account when looking at a stallion to breed to. There is the american appendix horse association which has its own award program and markets the stallions which I am pursuing to get him more recognition. I am not jaded into the I want in the WB club. My frustration lies in the fact I can have a going third level horse who is quality and someone else have a wb and simply because he is a wb they will go with him when the other horse is unproven. The frustration is people think they need a wb to win when in fact any quality horse would do. Also for most people a qh/tb mix is more amateur friendly and a more comfortable ride. Spent a year in Canada riding for a Hanoverian breeder and competing. He loved my OTTB. He asked me frequently to trade so he had a more amateur friendly horse to sell. I didn’t think the TB was really anything special - I considered him average but you couldn’t beat his attitude. Was happy to do whatever you asked. He was okay at shows was respectable but not a star by any means but consistent. He repeatedly wanted to trade for a nice bit unproven hano made. She was nice but not consistent enough. I used the TB for lessons. He said " why won’t you trade for a registered nice hanoverian . If you put time on her you could win. Why do you want a TB and not a WB ? You can’t win on a TB !" He didn’t undsrstand why I wanted that horse. He was something anyone could ride. I sold him immediately after getting home for a very nice price and he is consistently placing locally with an amateur rider. I just find tb and tb crosses to be more user friendly. WB tend to be very large and have bigger gaits. People who are smaller and have had prior injuries find them difficult to ride. That is many of my clients. People who bought big fancy WB and found out they were uncomfortable on them due to size as they were a smaller rider or gait due to previous injury. Truth be told the majority of breeders are looking to produce horses for the amateur rider that will likely not exceed fourth level. If you can produce rideable user friendly horses to get someone there you will do well as a breeder. Sure some will go higher but the majority just make it to there. I produce quality user friendly horses that just about anyone can ride and be successful at those levels. I do well. Some comments have been useful and kind as to those thank you - even if your preference is WB. I understand if you breed it there is a loyalty there for obvious reasons. Some comments have only reinforced the general attitude I am referring to. To those people you need to have a realization most of your horses are for mid level amateurs not Olympians. On that note, I exit as I don’t cars to induce a further basically pissing match.

op- perhaps more people may read your posts if you discover how to use paragraphs.

I could not make it through that wall of whining.

if your horses are as great as you claim- get out there and prove it.

[Dressagelvr]

What people don’t understand is that the fact that a horse happens to have a talent for a discipline outside of its breeding is no indication that the horse will be able to pass that talent on to its offspring.

The more likely outcome is that the offspring will perform strongest as the lines are bred to do…back to the original discipline…barrel racing in this case.

Also, stop for a second and imagine this thread on a barrel racing forum. Would anyone even post it? I doubt there’s a WB breeder out there who thinks their stallion should be marketed to the western, endurance, or saddle seat markets for example.

I’m not sure why folks think all horses should be able to do what the WBs do best when the reverse certainly isn’t the case.

[fire_911medic]

Rather than continuing to debate the point over and over if you are showing in ky or any surrounding states you are likely to ride against my stallion or one of his offspring and we will let the ring decide. As I explained earlier if you had read I am on a smart phone and unable to post pics or video. When I get my comp back from being repaired next week I am happy to. No secrets here. I am proud of my stallion and his get so we will see you and your warmbloods in the ring. May the best horse win and be recognized for it.

[siegi_b]

… one more thought about what the OP is suggesting here… Warmblood stallions go through rigorous testing before they’re allowed to breed and the percentage of boys that actually get their approvals is extremely small. The testing involves evaluation of conformation, gaits at liberty, and then at some point the ridden part. Some registries also require certain x-rays and semen evaluation before they will put their final stamp on the approval. NONE of this information/evaluation is available for the OP’s stallion because she is the one that deemed her horse breeding worthy and we’re supposed to believe that she is as experienced and unbiased as a team of judges would be… :yes::no:

[out_west]

Okay I’ve ridden warmbloods, I like them just fine, but I have a major issue I don’t understand. What is warmbloods issue with quarter horses and paints ? The AQHQ realizes the versatility of its horses and now recognizes dressage and have jumping classes. I myself have an appendix stallion out of my own appendix made who went PSG. My stallion is on his way but I feel an automatic condemnation from judges at shows because one they ALWAYS ask the breed (who freaking cares the horse can perform or it can’t) and two my horse looks and moves like a warmblood so they assume he is. Yet despite our success he doesn’t get his recognition because he is viewed as less of a horse because he isn’t a WB. They accept TB, Arabs, and others are considered sport horses so what makes it so much better that the Americans didn’t create it ? So frustrating ! I’d like for my foals to be eligible for young horse and things but they can’t no matter how nice because they aren’t warmbloods. Why does the attitude prevail ?

I am still having trouble understanding just what you are so upset about? You ask what is warmbloods issue… I don’t think my warmbloods have an issue with QH’s or Paints. Nor do I.
You complain about breed bias in judging, and the fact that judges always ask what your horse is, but then in the next sentence say that your horses look and move like WB’s - so which is it? Who is it that you want recognition from? As mentioned above registered horses (inc. QH’s) CAN compete toward National Young Horse Championships. Do you expect your horses to be registered in WB regestries? My KWPN mare won’t be accepted in the AQHA. Would I breed to your stallion - not on your life, FOR MYSELF I would choose a stallion with a proven record of producing multiple upper level competitors, who had generations of proven upper level dressage bloodlines, was known for soundness, within my mare’s registry etc. A stallion with stock or cutting bloodlines, no matter how talented himself, is not at all likely to produce what I want. And if I bred, I would go for the whole package if I could - I would never shoot for average, we get enough average even when trying for a superstar.

[JWB]

[QUOTE=fire_911medic;7217338]
Rather than continuing to debate the point over and over if you are showing in ky or any surrounding states you are likely to ride against my stallion or one of his offspring and we will let the ring decide. As I explained earlier if you had read I am on a smart phone and unable to post pics or video. When I get my comp back from being repaired next week I am happy to. No secrets here. I am proud of my stallion and his get so we will see you and your warmbloods in the ring. May the best horse win and be recognized for it.[/QUOTE]

What’s his name? I’d love to pull up his record. I searched through the past year’s USDF shows in KY and the only QH or appendix stallions I found records for were shown by Lynn Palm and out of TB mares, so I haven’t located his record yet. A little help would be great!